Sauternes yeast

[ms67]

I'm a big fan of Sauternes yeast, specifically the one that Ritchies does, but i have never seen anyone else rave about it. I can't help wondering why and my wonderings go like this ....

is it cos you guys already have your favourites and we are all creatures of habit?
have you tried it and not liked it for whatever reason?
are you put off by it not coming from a bespoke/specialist yeast supplier?

i'd love to hear your thoughts cos i find it very easy to use; never needed to make a starter, gets going very quickly, doesn't stick even with very high OGs, is happy to ferment at lower temps than many others, low foaming (infact i would say it isn't foaming at all), doesn't throw a big sediment (and what sediment is left is stable and not whispy so easy to handle at racking), bottom fermenting which helps with quick unaided clearing. I also read that it produces more esters than most.

Also, as i like this yeast so much, but i am keen to keep trying others, could you recommend some others for me to try which share some of the properties i so like.

[NorthernWiner]

I'm not familiar with Richies' products (we don't have them in the US), but, the descriptions I've seen say that it's used for "sweet and dessert" wines. Since most of the wines I make are dry and red, it's probably not a good fit for me as a general purpose yeast.

As far as yeasts I like, there are a few. For dessert type wines, I've been using a Lalvin yeast called "R2" that is originally a strain isolated in Sauternes. What I like about it is that it ferments well at cool temperatures and enhances aromatics. A few others I've used and like in this category are Red Star Côte des Blancs and Lalvin ICV-D47. These last two work well for most any white wine.

For dry red wines, I have quite a few "go to" yeasts, mostly made or distributed by Lalvin. ICV-D254, Enoferm Syrah, ICV-D80, ICV-D21, AMH (for Pinot Noir and Zinfandel), BDX (Bordeaux varieties), BM45 (Sangiovese, Barbera, Tempranillo). The only yeast I use on my hybrid grapes is 71B-1121, because it also metabolizes some of the high acid.

[ms67]

Yep spot on with the sweet and dessert descriptions, also cool ferments and enhancing aromatics. The reason i've ended up using it for everything (except kits and experiments) including reds and drys, is that i was caught short once with a blackberry wine. It was the only yeast i had in, and it worked fantastically well. So i kept trying it and kept being pleased with the results.

I guess that when you have the wealth of experience that you have, then this isn't going to change your mind or habits, and quite rightly!

Thanks for the 'R2' lavlin pointer, i'll definately try and get my hands on some and give that a go. Also the Côte des Blancs and Lalvin ICV-D47 which i'll look out for and try with wines that i am aiming for a dry result with (rather than medium). i really dont want to get stuck in a rut, but i do see this extended run of using only sauternes as being a good thing for familiarity, and repeat runs year on year 'proving' to me that the first results were not a fluke.

Thanks for your thoughts, its exactly the kind of feedback i'm looking for and i hope there's more to come from others (come on join in ). I really dont mind if your experience is limited or vast, or what style of wine you make. I've not long moved out of using general purpose wine yeast for everything myself.

[fatbloke]

for info ms67, here's your link for Lallemand (Lalvin and other ranges) yeasts.

So you're aware, Bob sometimes has some of the "usual suspects" from Lalvin, but there's a number of them, that as far as I'm aware, are only available in 500 gramme commercial packs.

Of the ones that Steve has mentioned, I believe that normally, R2, D254, D80 and D21 aren't available in the UK in the 5 gramme home brew sized packs.

Though if you don't mind doing mail order, morewine repackage some of the ones that are only in 500g packs. You'd have to look through their list to see what's available in small packs.

The "usual suspects" include EC-1118, K1V-1116, 71B, D47 and RC-212, off the top of my head.

Plus I'm unaware of anyone who keeps the Redstar range in the UK.

If you wanted to try some of the Wyeast Liquid yeast range, then as far as I can find out, the nearest is Brouwland in Belgium.

Erm, I haven't found anyone keeping any of the White Labs yeasts either.....

Ha! there's others that you sometimes hear mentioned or read about that are even more elusive (like Vierka yeasts)

regards

jtfb

[lockwood1956]

Yep spot on with the sweet and dessert descriptions, also cool ferments and enhancing aromatics. The reason i've ended up using it for everything (except kits and experiments) including reds and drys, is that i was caught short once with a blackberry wine. It was the only yeast i had in, and it worked fantastically well. So i kept trying it and kept being pleased with the results..

using the same yeast for all your wines is not the way to go.......for total quality you need to match the yeast to the outcome you desire.......

[goldseal]

I find this useful:

http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/yeasts.htm

If in the UK, look for the Lalvin and Gervin yeasts.

[lockwood1956]

I love Ben Rotters site....such a mine of useful info, and he is a nice guy too

[lockwood1956]

Tons of info here too

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=945

[ms67]

thanks everyone, i'm still struggling to find an easy way through the yeast possibilities. i thought i got some useful practical stuff but now its seems i have to buy 1kg at a time! There's just too much info out there, and i cant be bothered to sift through it, hence i'm trying to get some nailed down specific suggestions to go with. kinda like me saying i like sauternes and this is why. tho of course i do see that one yeast for everything isn't the way to go, and that is why i'm asking.

somewhere in all this discussion the "right" question will eventually be asked, to get the "right" answer!

[goldseal]

Right, this works for me. These are all Lalvin yeasts, but I have put the Gervin equivalent in brackets where known:

D47 (Gervin F) - good for whites and rosés. A good choice for Sur Lie / Batonnage jobs too. Often recommended for mead.

71B (Gervin D) - again, good for whites and rosés. Useful if your must contains lots of malic acid, because it can metabolise some of it.

EC-1118 - the yeast of (my) choice for sparkling wine. Supposedly good for restarting stuck ferments too.

K1V-1116 - works well in white and red. Brings out the fruitiness. Seems to have worked well in Merlot (from grapes) and Wine No.1. Tolerant of high alcohol levels, so good for making ports too. A great all-rounder, well worth keeping a sachet or two in your fridge.

RC-212 - a choice for reds, but in my experience it is easy to get H2S (rotten egg) issues.

Does that help?

[ms67]

cheers Goldseal think i'll be on the lookout for K1V-1116. At my very early stage of experimenting with yeast an all rounder that comes recommended could be just the ticket.

[lockwood1956]

D47 (Gervin F) - good for whites and rosés. A good choice for Sur Lie / Batonnage jobs too. Often recommended for mead.

71B (Gervin D) - again, good for whites and rosés. Useful if your must contains lots of malic acid, because it can metabolise some of it.

EC-1118 - the yeast of (my) choice for sparkling wine. Supposedly good for restarting stuck ferments too.

K1V-1116 - works well in white and red. Brings out the fruitiness. Seems to have worked well in Merlot (from grapes) and Wine No.1. Tolerant of high alcohol levels, so good for making ports too. A great all-rounder, well worth keeping a sachet or two in your fridge.

RC-212 - a choice for reds, but in my experience it is easy to get H2S (rotten egg) issues.

Pete....you Da man

[ms67]

Thanks JtFB for the Lallemand link, and also Pete for the uber BRS link, although the info is a little gappy there it is comprehensive in its categories/qualities which means i can quickly filter it to find the ones that suit me. I think i'll be turning to that page often as my knowledge and experience increases. Also its good for me to see that my observations of sauternes strain is reflected there, reassuring me that what i observe is not a figment of my imagination, and also generating trust in their descriptions and my ability to reproduce them.

I like easy to work with yeasts and those which give more esters. That'll narrow down my choice a lot, while still leaving me some options. It'll probably be some time before i make my own choices as i'll go with a couple of recommendations from WAH folk first (e.g. K1V-1116) . And of course i'll have to wait months for the results to come in too. And yup, looks like it'll have to mail order.

I feel happy now that i'm on the path to getting to grips with yeasts, right at the start but on the path! Thanks all, and please keep suggestions rolling if you have more

[goldseal]

A couple of months and you will be a Yeast Snob, like Bob

(and .... errrr .... me)

[ms67]

to be honest, its about time i got more serious about yeast. There comes a time when you gotta challenge yourself again and take another progressive step. Balance and yeast are what i'm working on now, and to a lesser extent blending. WAH is such a wealthy resource that it'd be criminal for me not to take the plunge.