Weird sediment in juice ???

[fatbloke]

Just before crimbo, erindoors said that I'd have to clear the freezer of the bits of fruit I'd collected.

In total, it was just over 4kg and was mainly raspberry (about 2kg), wild plum (about 1.2kg) and the rest was strawberry with a small amount of "eating" grapes.

So it's all been through my steam juicer and came to about a gallon in total - what you see in the picture (which includes half a litre of RGJ and about 1.2kg of honey) and another jar that was filled first that had contained 1.3kg of honey (Polish origin). The honey jar is in the fridge now as there's no recipe per se, but it's all intended to become a mixed fruit melomel.

The DJ in the attachment was sulphited with a campden tablet and was just basically cloudy looking juice. Today, I managed to get to the HBS and picked up some calcium carbonate (as I suspect it might be a little high in acid - given the raspberry and plum content - and no I haven't checked the pH yet) and some pectolase as I figured that it will definitely need some as the steaming of the juice would create a potential issue. I added 2 teaspoons of the pectolase as I figured that the amount of fruit might need a double dose (about 3 this afternoon).

I took the photo (sorry for the rubbish pic) about 2 and 1/2 hours ago as I was amazed to see the sediment forming/appearing. Yes, poor focus but you can plainly see the sediment etc.

Now, is it likely that this is just the pectin formed by the steam extraction getting "hammered" by the enzyme or could it be something else ?

also, should I attempt to strain it or just move it over to a bucket to start the primary (yes, I know that the juice and nearly 3lb of honey will make it quite high gravity, but that's intentional as I'm probably going to step feed it nutrient i.e. Fermaid-K and some DAP). Oh and I'm going to use 71B for the yeast as I suspect that the juice will be relatively high in "malic".....

As usual, any ideas or suggestions etc are much appreciated.

regards

jtfb

[lockwood1956]

You could as you rightly say john, just fire the ferment up....


If it were me, i would sulphite the juice and allow it to stand till that sediment settles fully and then rack the pure juice off. Especially if you are planning a high gravity must, you dont want any potential stalling agents in there....i.e. heavy sediment stifling your bottom dwelling yeasties

hope that helps
regards
Bob

[goldseal]

I'd do the same - sulphite, wait, rack.

[fatbloke]

You could as you rightly say john, just fire the ferment up....

If it were me, i would sulphite the juice and allow it to stand till that sediment settles fully and then rack the pure juice off. Especially if you are planning a high gravity must, you dont want any potential stalling agents in there....i.e. heavy sediment stifling your bottom dwelling yeasties

hope that helps
regards
Bob

I'd do the same - sulphite, wait, rack.

TVM both. Problem is, that the must has already been sulphited once. To do it a second time? well wouldn't that be likely to up the levels enough to inhibit the yeast as well ?

What I was thinking of, was to put it into a bucket, give it a good stir, take the usual readings and go for it.....

Only because if any of the sediment, which must be fruit related (though how the hell it's come through the steam juicer is a bit of a mystery), so if there's any flavour compounds, some or most of that would be extracted during the main part of the ferment, I'll be aerating daily, so that should allow the yeast to do it's thing, then when it hits between 1030 to 1020, it'll be moved to secondary, but racked off the sediment....

And yes, this morning, it's left a layer about 2 inches thick, but I'm doubting whether it's likely to flocculate firmly as there's been nothing in it to do that.......

Gonna have a bit more of a look round before I actually proceed, as it will have had 24 hours on the pectolase at about 3 this afternoon, so not too much of a rush.....

Once again, TVM for the comments etc both.

regards

jtfb

[goldseal]

If you need to get it fermenting quickly you could rack immediately and get the fermentation going with the clear juice. Move the sediment into a smaller container, add a bit more sulphite and wait for THAT to separate out. Rack off the clear juice and add to the main fermenter.

This worked for me a couple of months ago. I had some Seyval juice which looked like oxtail soup . It took fours days to get the last of the clear juice out, but the end result seems OK (so far).

[fatbloke]

If you need to get it fermenting quickly you could rack immediately and get the fermentation going with the clear juice. Move the sediment into a smaller container, add a bit more sulphite and wait for THAT to separate out. Rack off the clear juice and add to the main fermenter.

This worked for me a couple of months ago. I had some Seyval juice which looked like oxtail soup . It took fours days to get the last of the clear juice out, but the end result seems OK (so far).

That occurred to me after I'd posted the other reply Pete, but as I'm intending to use a 2 gallon bucket for primary I'm thinking that I'll just give it a go as is.

After all, while I haven't actually checked yet, I suspect it's gonna be quite acid, what with the honey, raspberry and plum elements. Which, if it's as acid as I suspect, it's gonna foam like hell when I chuck some precipitated chalk in to reduce the pH (and it'd likely make a bit more sediment then.....)

I want to get it fermenting sooner rather than later, so allowing a few more hours for the pectolase to do it's thing (it'll be 24 hours at half 3 today), but to look up the details for staged nutrient addition etc, which means I can rehydrate the yeast (got some GoFerm for that ) and then I can prep the FermaidK and DAP to go in, hopefully, some time tomorrow.

cheers for the suggestion though Pete, very much appreciated....

regards

jtfb

[Cellar_Rat]

I would get it going quickly. Fermenting is a sterilizing process, so no harm should come from it and then deal with it in the ordinary fining/racking process. Fruit solids (which this is I guess ) can improve the body/finish. My tuppence, for what its worth!

Brian

If it all goes horribly horribly wrong - put it back in freezer once it have fermented. The solids (generally) freeze in the water and not the alcohol. Invert, drain off. Viola fruit brandy!

[hedgerow]

I personaly would try either a coffee filter into the other fermentation vessel to reduce some of the solids, some thing i have done in the past when having a bad lot was to add the two tea spoons of kwick clear, because it works by changing the polarity of the fines they do drop quite well, once do and if you have lost to much yeast you only have to restart or take some of the wine out first to put back in afterwards

[Cellar_Rat]

Coffee filters a good one - I have used a (Sterile) triangular bandage over a funnel before - but I am showing my age now, 'cos them days they where made of calico.

[lockwood1956]

some thing i have done in the past when having a bad lot was to add the two tea spoons of kwick clear, because it works by changing the polarity of the fines they do drop quite well,

that won't be necessary in this case as these suspended solids have already dropped from suspension to form a sediment, they just need gravity to compact them and then racking the clear juice from above the sediment is preferable (IMO) to mixing it all up again and pouring through a filter

[fatbloke]

Well I'm not so worried about it at this stage, as it hasn't been fermented yet. I'm just sanitising a bucket at the moment ready to transfer it over.

I'm intending to rehydrate the yeast in RGJ with a 1/4 tsp of GoFerm - which should give it a good start, then tomorrow, once it's showing signs of movement, it'll get 1/2 tsp of Fermaid-K and 1/2 tsp of DAP and then it'll be time to start watching the numbers.

I haven't yet taken any measurements pH or gravity-wise, as I'll do that once it's in the bucket.

It'll be great if it did ferment dry as there's about 3/4 of a litre of "spare" juice in the fridge for back sweetening, should it need it.

Oh and yes, if it does seem to be a bit too acid before pitching the yeast, at least the bucket will give me space as to add a little calcium carbonate to reduce that a little.......

I'll post back when I've got it going.....

regards

jtfb

p.s. and while I'm not worried, I still find it a bit strange that there seems to be such a quantity of fruit solids (plum fibre ???) that have come through the steamer......

[Cellar_Rat]

A centrifuge would work! So how about a short length of rope tied to the handles on the demijohn and ...................

[fatbloke]

I've just finished the mixings and pitchings of this (for the moment anyway).

The strange looking juice has gone into the sanitised bucket and I added a further 1 litre of red grape, minus 100mls as that was to rehydrate the yeast.

I've used the 100mls of red grape, mixed in 1/4 of a teaspoon of GoFerm and then used a water bath to bring it up to temperature for adding the yeast (Lalvin 71B). It only took 10 minutes for the yeast to get a considerable head on it......... excellent.

In the meantime, I sampled the main must batch and that gave me a starting gravity of 1.120 - so not quite as high as I thought it might be. Should give me about 14% ABV if finished at 1.000 - though I'm hoping that staggered nutrient and the extra 3/4 litre of juice still in the fridge will still get it a bit lower than that. If it doesn't then fine, not a problem.

I also got a reading of 3.31 pH so that's not so much of a problem either. I did just add a teaspoon of calcium carbonate to it, just to point it at a better direction i.e. closer to the 3.5 I like to keep my musts at. It's bound to swing about a bit as mead musts have a habit of doing that.

So it's full steam ahead. I'm just waiting for signs of the ferment kicking in, so I can add the main nutrients i.e. I've got to check but 1/2 a tsp of the Fermaid-K and 1/2 a tsp of DAP should do the trick.

Then it's just a case of aeration once a day until it gets to the 1030/1020 sort of area before racking off to a DJ. I might even end up with a DJ and a half when I've added the extra bit of juice that's still in the fridge.....

Watch this space.....

regards

jtfb