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"Modern" Mead (From the "Gales Book of Honey")

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  • #16
    Well, as a complete newcomer to this board, let me jump right into this fray! While many meadmakers have had success with acid additions into the must at the start of fermentation, many others have suffered through sluggish or even stuck fermentations while using those (mostly older) recipes calling for early additions of acid. I can say without doubt, based on personal experience and much documented quantitative research, that there is often no good reason for acid additions pre-fermentation in virtually all mead recipes. In fact, I will support the position taken by John -- often a basic pH adjustment is in order. Research conducted on many available honeys shows that the average pH of honey is in fact in the range of 3.6 to 3.9. That research also tends to show that the gluconic acid - gluconolactone equilibrium within a typical mead must tends to hold pH at or near that of the original honey, unless water with an excess of alkalinity is used in the must. However, when acids are added at the start of fermentation, the equilibrium pH can be skewed lower. Also, there is not enough gluconic acid for that natural equilibrium to prevent the pH of honey must from going lower with just a slight addition of H+ ions. Results of studies by Lallemand (one of the largest commercial suppliers of oenologic yeasts) strongly argue that optimal fermentation kinetics occur when the must is kept between 3.4 and 4.0 pH. At pH levels of 3.2 and below, the yeast are excessively stressed and cannot clear the surplus of H+ ions within cells, leading to their eventual inability to sustain fermentation. At pH of 4.0 and above, the growth of spoilage organisms within the must is not sufficiently inhibited.

    When a purely traditional mead must (i.e. honey and water only) is inoculated with yeast, the rapid production of CO2 results in some of the gas dissolving into solution within the must, becoming carbonic acid in the process and effectively dropping the pH of the must. Thus, without adequate buffers to keep the equilibrium pH in the desireable range of 3.4 to 4.0, the very act of fermentation can produce a byproduct that quenches the process.

    The bottom line to this argument is that John is correct (although his numbers may be a bit off) -- rather than add acids in advance, in a mistaken belief that such additions will promote fermentation, instead add them as flavour adjuncts at the end of fermentation. If anything, an addition of Potassium Carbonate or Bicarbonate is instead called for.

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    • #17
      Welcome w c b, note for the record, there are no arguments on this forum just discussions.
      Discount Home Brew Supplies
      Chairman of 5 Towns Wine & Beer Makers Circle!
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Duffbeer View Post
        Welcome w c b, note for the record, there are no arguments on this forum just discussions.
        N.G.W.B.J.
        Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
        Wine, mead and beer maker

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        • #19
          Ahh -- then I am pleased to add to the "spirited discussion!"

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          • #20
            Each to their own. Many ways to make Mead. No arguments from this side, I for sure do not like them and they serve no purpose nor do heated discussions. Enjoy your method and try another forum if that is what you are looking for. Daw

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            • #21
              He isn't looking for an argument Daw, but you are right, heated discussion serves no purpose at all


              merely badonage I hope
              Last edited by lockwood1956; 03-04-2008, 10:09 PM.
              N.G.W.B.J.
              Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
              Wine, mead and beer maker

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              • #22
                I believe what we are trying to say is that there is very little difference between argument and heated discussion? Now if you wish some educational discussion with an open mind to accept many options and where all interested can benefit and add any other comments (we all have our ways of doing things) then you have entered a great forum. I have made mead both ways with acid and without. I prefer with acid. It works very well for me especially in the area of great thorough complete fermentations. No stuck fermentations when you know and control the pH before pitching the yeast. I am sorry but you cannot teach an old dog new tricks especially when I have learned this one. But, hey! I am not perfect and I know there are many ways to reach great enjoyable mead. Enjoy your mead making all! Cheers Daw

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                • #23
                  Each to his own, I say. Once the basics and good practise have been mastered the method can only ever be subjective. It's the end result that matters.
                  Let's party


                  AKA Brunehilda - Last of the Valkaries

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                  • #24
                    Hum? Well far be it for me to contradict anyone, whether it's our resident knowledgeable one or one of the newer members who do seem to be well read/researched.

                    I'm due to make a batch with the heather honey I got the other week, but I think that what I'll end up doing, is checking the pH before I actually think about the citric acid part of the recipe.

                    If it's reasonably close to 3.5, then I'll leave it out, if it's higher then maybe I'll add it to see how it measures up.

                    Oh and I've read, and re-read, various bits of stuff and for the moment, I think I'll be just doing the "sweet" method i.e. 4lb in the gallon - but I'm gonna make sure that I've added enough nutrient (minavit is what I've got at the moment) as per the instructions for high sugar/alcohol mixes, and then shake it like hell to aerate it, before I think about pitching the yeast (71B this time, though I might do a comparative with D47 later).

                    I'm just thinking along the lines of keeping things pretty much the same as I have been doing so far - because I'm likely to get a better idea of the differences in the various honeys that way.

                    regards

                    JtFB
                    Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

                    Some blog ramblings

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                    • #25
                      John
                      you really do seem to be getting the hang of this wine/mead making mallarkey

                      I noticed today in Morrisons that they have a much extended range of honey's


                      I now also have an almost limitless supply of Lalvin 71B-1122 £1.10 delivered to you 2nd class (form a queue)
                      N.G.W.B.J.
                      Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                      Wine, mead and beer maker

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                      • #26
                        I'm due to make a batch with the heather honey I got the other week, but I think that what I'll end up doing, is checking the pH before I actually think about the citric acid part of the recipe.

                        If it's reasonably close to 3.5, then I'll leave it out, if it's higher then maybe I'll add it to see how it measures up

                        FB you are very fortunate to get some Heather honey to give it a try. It has been a long standing dream of mine to make some of the heather honey. Do you know what kind of heather honey it is BELL (not gelatinous) or LINK (gelatinous)? The information that I have for Heather honies and the pH levels for the mean that were tested it was 4.13. That indicates to me that acid addition to achieve a pH in the area of 3.3 would be my way of doing it (much better fermentation you will notice the difference). Also if it is the Ling heather honey you will require more water addition to get it to the consistency ready for the fermentation process. You are into a new area there and it will be interesting for you in every respect. I have collected quite a bit of information of this heather honey; keep us informed as you go along. Cheers Daw.

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                        • #27
                          I would recommend against a starting a fermentation at a pH of 3.3 unless you have a honey that is loaded with buffer. Once the yeast population begins to reproduce and absorb the nitrogen and nutrients from the must, the pH will drop further, and hydrogen ion transport across the plasma membrane will become problematic for the yeast, especially as the alcohol level of the must increases. This is the cause of many stuck mead fermentations.

                          I know it can be challenging to go against long held practices, but the research on this stuff is pretty conclusive. I've also witnessed the improvement in the fermentations and the quality of my meads personally over the last 20 years of meadmaking, and I am pretty firmly now in the "no acid before fermentation" camp.

                          Ken

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                            John
                            you really do seem to be getting the hang of this wine/mead making mallarkey

                            I noticed today in Morrisons that they have a much extended range of honey's


                            I now also have an almost limitless supply of Lalvin 71B-1122 £1.10 delivered to you 2nd class (form a queue)
                            Ah, damn. I got a supply about a month ago from one of the online HBS. Though I'm thinking about a couple of the other ones (got EC-1118, D47 and 71B stocks), so I still might need to visit "Bobs yeast mountain" .

                            And yes, with the honey thing, it's the same at the local tesco as well - though it's branded i.e. Rowse so it could be cheaper but .......... I'm still thinking along the lines that the local blokes' products won't have been messed around so much though (my suspicious/cynical nature coming through there ). But it still gives me a few extra avenues for honey supplies.
                            Originally posted by StockeyDAW View Post
                            FB you are very fortunate to get some Heather honey to give it a try. It has been a long standing dream of mine to make some of the heather honey. Do you know what kind of heather honey it is BELL (not gelatinous) or LINK (gelatinous)? The information that I have for Heather honies and the pH levels for the mean that were tested it was 4.13. That indicates to me that acid addition to achieve a pH in the area of 3.3 would be my way of doing it (much better fermentation you will notice the difference). Also if it is the Ling heather honey you will require more water addition to get it to the consistency ready for the fermentation process. You are into a new area there and it will be interesting for you in every respect. I have collected quite a bit of information of this heather honey; keep us informed as you go along. Cheers Daw.
                            No, they weren't quite that specific DAW - I suspect they figure it's enough to say that it was "collected" in England, as opposed to Scotland. Rather than try to attribute it to a particular growth/species. Would have been nice to know (though I doubt whether they'll tell me who the producer is, in case I try to buy direct).

                            In truth, it's been your comments that have caused me to try heather honey DAW, because the old "Making Mead" book authors seem to shy away from it, mainly it seems, because of the very strong taste and that it can require some considerable ageing before it comes good.

                            Either way, I'll keep you/WAH informed of how I get on.

                            Cheers for the advice and suggestions, much appreciated.
                            Originally posted by compleat meadmaker View Post
                            I would recommend against a starting a fermentation at a pH of 3.3 unless you have a honey that is loaded with buffer. Once the yeast population begins to reproduce and absorb the nitrogen and nutrients from the must, the pH will drop further, and hydrogen ion transport across the plasma membrane will become problematic for the yeast, especially as the alcohol level of the must increases. This is the cause of many stuck mead fermentations.

                            I know it can be challenging to go against long held practices, but the research on this stuff is pretty conclusive. I've also witnessed the improvement in the fermentations and the quality of my meads personally over the last 20 years of meadmaking, and I am pretty firmly now in the "no acid before fermentation" camp.

                            Ken
                            As it happens Ken, my main sources of info have been "Making Mead" by Bryan Acton & Peter Duncan (a rather elderly "Amateur Wine Maker" publication that's no longer in print - mine is dated "Fourth Impression 1968"), your book (I got a copy about 2 years ago - it kept coming top of the amazon search results ), plus here at WAH and of course, Gotmead.

                            The main reason for not having made the batch yet, has been that here, there's the school of thought about keeping the gravity down some and then feeding the fermentation at certain points. Whereas lots of the suggestions at Gotmead seems to allude to just mixing the must to the recipe, plus the requisite nutrients and as much aeration (prior to pitching yeast) as possible.

                            While not wanting to disrespect/ignore anyones advice or suggestions here, Gotmead is mead specific. Whereas the "certain SG, then feed" technique seems to be more of a general "country wine thing".

                            Hence I'm gonna go with the 4lb in the gallon suggested by the recipe.

                            My last attempt suggested that it'll give me a starting gravity of about 1130/1135. So it should still produce quite a sweet mead - which is what I'm aiming for anyway.

                            As for the "acid thing", I'll hit the must with my pH meter before adding anything, but then I'm undecided whether to use citric (as per the recipe) or the "Mead acid" suggested in the "Making Mead" book (a ratio of 2 Malic to 1 Tartaric), should it need any kind of adjustment (though I seem to recall reading somewhere that heather honey is quite acid - so I'm hoping that it won't need any modification at the "must stage").

                            3.3 pH you mention falls nicely within DAW's previous recommendation of between 3.0 and 3.5, so I'd be following convention as I currently understand it. Though if the pH level is about 3.3 then I get to copy your guidance/suggestion as well. Excellent.

                            Ok, I'll mix the must later and probably post about how I get on this evening.

                            As ever, thanks for the guidance everyone, very much appreciated.

                            regards

                            JtFB
                            Last edited by fatbloke; 05-04-2008, 10:12 AM. Reason: typo
                            Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

                            Some blog ramblings

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                            • #29
                              poopies

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