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Updated CJJ Berry Recipes

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  • #16
    I will update it this evening (busy day today)
    N.G.W.B.J.
    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
    Wine, mead and beer maker

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    • #17
      In the Vanilla wine it says 1/4 -1/2 pint of Glycerine yould you say this was correct?
      Terry

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      • #18
        No water used in the blackberry wine recipe p42 plus 3lbs of sugar in method but 1Kg in ingredients.

        P.S. What methodology did you use to calculate the contribution of fruit juice to the total volume of must, and conversely, the dehydrating effect of using dried fruit such as raisins & sultanas?
        Last edited by David; 21-01-2010, 07:46 PM.
        My Brewlist@Jan2011

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        • #19
          Originally posted by David View Post
          P.S. What methodology did you use to calculate the contribution of fruit juice to the total volume of must, and conversely, the dehydrating effect of using dried fruit such as raisins & sultanas?

          I know how accurate you like to be David, as do I to a certain extent, but for the average home winemaker, they aren't that bothered about that level of accuracy, nor do they need to be.

          If I ever use fresh fruit I use the table available here



          to roughly calculate the sugar content of the fruit and adjust Mmy SG accordingly, reducing sugar added to take account of the sugar in the fruit pulp.
          For raisins and sultana additions I use the calculation 5lb raisins/sultanas = 3lb sugar, I don't calculate for the dehydrating effect, it is there, but unless you are making a very very large batch, it makes little or no difference to the SG (likely about 0.5% ABV in a gallon batch) so not worth frying my head over

          I simply adjusted the sugar levels in the recipes to get closer to the 1.080 start point I like to use, the adjustments are not 100% accurate, but are closer to making good wine than the originals were, I'm amazed these musts ever got started fermenting, this much sugar would produce osmotic shock in the yeast that just beggars belief..... maybe in CJ's days yeasties were tougher?

          A huge debate can be had as to the effects and sugar content of various fruits etc, we are mostly working by educated guesses as there are huge differences year on year, this is why these days I prefer to juice my fruit, and add that, this enables me to be much more accurate with my SG measurements.

          This was simply an update to some very very old popular recipes that people still seem to enjoy making, and that i have received many requests via PM as to what I thought of them, my answer was always the same, reduce the sugar levels!

          Most of these wines I wouldn't ferment if you paid me to do it, but I appreciate we are all different.

          A full update will be available when i finally get around to Writing a "modern winemaking" book

          regards
          Bob
          Last edited by lockwood1956; 31-03-2010, 12:39 PM.
          N.G.W.B.J.
          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
          Wine, mead and beer maker

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by David View Post
            What methodology did you use to calculate the contribution of fruit juice to the total volume of must, and conversely, the dehydrating effect of using dried fruit such as raisins & sultanas?
            It was the volume of fruit juice I meant, rather than the amount fruit sugar, because besides the problem of too much sugar with some of the recipes, many had xx pounds of fruit , xx pounds of sugar and then a whole gallon of water, leaving one trying to fit something like 11 pints of strained must into a gallon demijohn.

            And some would say that's OK because it would provide some extra for a top up bottle, but if making 6 gall batches it can be extremely frustrating until you've measured and recorded all you need to know to enable the quantities of all the ingredients to be adjusted to get the amount required.
            My Brewlist@Jan2011

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            • #21
              ah...

              I tend to (when making 1 gal pulp ferment batches) make up the must to one gallon, adjusting SG to take account of sugar present in the fruit, and then add the fruit, it throws the numbers out a bit, but i can live with the small difference it makes, giving me the extra for top ups, this would likely still work OK (ish) on 5 gal batches, but I can see how it would be difficult on 6 gallon batches yes.....

              but I know how accurate you like to be, and so you wouldn't be using CJJJJJ's recipes anyhow.

              I know you pasteurise your fruits, this will of course reduce them somewhat?

              Do you ever use a steamer?
              I love mine because it gives me pure juice, which makes life so much easier.

              regards
              bob
              Last edited by lockwood1956; 31-03-2010, 06:47 PM.
              N.G.W.B.J.
              Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
              Wine, mead and beer maker

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                I tend to (when making 1 gal pulp ferment batches) make up the must to one gallon, adjusting SG to take account of sugar present in the fruit, and then add the fruit, giving me the extra for top ups, this would likely still work OK, but I can see how it would be difficult on 6 gallon batches yes.....

                but I know how accurate you like to be, and so you wouldn't be using CJJJJJ's recipes anyhow
                I tend to only use a 1 gall batch as a trial, then go on to make a 6'ish gall batch that will fill 5 1 gall DJs right up into the neck on racking off.

                But I still look to books such as 'First Steps' (amongst others) when trying something new.

                Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                I know you pasteurise your fruits, this will of course reduce them somewhat?
                I pasteurise pressed apple & pear juice (have also pressed blackberry, stawberry & loganberry).Not quite sure what you mean by "reduce somewhat" unless you mean reduction in flavour (I thought most general comsumers of pasteurised juice were worried about reduction in the likes of vitamins, etc), but yes it will to some extent, but nothing like what creating pasteurised carton juices from concentrate does, with the fruit growm on the other side of the world and all the good stuff extracted before it's shipped here.

                I know that juice producers add a bit of "not from concentrate" for extra flavour.



                Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                Do you ever use a steamer?
                I love mine because it gives me pure juice, which makes life so much easier.
                I've 2 steamers, a Lakeland one that does 3lbs at a time and one from Vigo that sits on top of my pasteuriser and steams much more fruit (15 lbs?) at a time.

                I weigh the fruit in and weigh both the juice(before/with added water)and sludge, adjust everthing exracted to the same concentration (so 1 pint of diluted exract would be the equivelant of juice/flavour extracted by pulp fermentation of 1 lb of fruit), then pasteurise it in pint bottles.

                But again. as with the Berry stuff above, to do so you'll need to have worked out how just much juice a pulp fermentation contributes to be able to get the concentration right.

                P.S. And yes, I may have greater aspirations regarding accuracy of such matters, but that probably comes from having to provided accurate estimates during the entitirety of my working career based on far, far, less information than those submitting the final bids.
                My Brewlist@Jan2011

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by David View Post
                  P.S. And yes, I may have greater aspirations regarding accuracy of such matters, but that probably comes from having to provided accurate estimates during the entitirety of my working career based on far, far, less information than those submitting the final bids.
                  David, I don't see your quest for accuracy as a bad thing at all, tis an admirable quality, I wish I were as diligent as you in my winemaking. Your joy at finding Gerry fowles "Must" (a great buy for anyone who is really really serious about the content of their wines £3.95 ) was the same as mine when I first found it.
                  N.G.W.B.J.
                  Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                  Wine, mead and beer maker

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                    Your joy at finding Gerry fowles "Must" (a great buy for anyone who is really really serious about the content of their wines £3.95 ) was the same as mine when I first found it.
                    Yes - It's truly great source of reference material, with far more info on dried/fresh fruit sugar, tannin, fresh/dried fruit equivalents, water and carbohydrate contents of fruits than in Ben Turner's book that I previously used. The labels on packs of fruit in Tesco are also a good source of information.

                    However, as I keep saying, it's not sugar/etc. levels that prompted my original post on this thread, but juice extraction levels and they are not in that book.

                    Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                    David, I don't see your quest for accuracy as a bad thing at all, tis an admirable quality, I wish I were as diligent as you in my winemaking.
                    Thank you, I think it's just as important to get the same amount of fruit juice per gall in each and every batch, as it is to use the right yeast and add the correct amount of sugar.



                    P.S. I reckon on 1 lb of chopped raisins/sutannas will absorb approx. ½ pint of water (nett of sugar bulking) per gall when fermented on the pulp for a few days, causing a 3 pint discrepancy if making a 6 gall batch.
                    Last edited by David; 03-04-2010, 06:39 PM.
                    My Brewlist@Jan2011

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                    • #25
                      Lockwood1956

                      Thanks for your hard work with this what a man!!!!!!!!!
                      Ive only just spotted it. Still trying to find my way around the site really
                      just worked out how to view all my posts!! how dowzee am I

                      I think its fantastic i am lovin lovin lovin it just like that!!!!

                      everyone is soo helpful its fab

                      regards to all fellow wino's lol
                      Lisa xx

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                      • #26
                        hey mate, this is great. many thanks.

                        P31 is repeated. It goes P31, P32 and then P33 is missing but has P31 repeated in its place instead which means half of the rose petal wine is missing.

                        best wishes. LB

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                        • #27
                          hmmmm

                          not exactly sure what happened there

                          but here is the rest of the rose petal recipe

                          Method:

                          Bring the water to the boil, and add the sugar, rose petals, and juice of the lemon.

                          Stir well, and when it has cooled to 70 degrees F. add the yeast (a G.P. wine yeast or a

                          level teaspoon of granulated yeast) and a yeast nutrient. Leave to ferment for a week,

                          stirring daily, and keeping closely covered. Then strain into a fermentation jar and

                          ferment until finished. A wine made in this way will normally have good colour, if

                          coloured roses are used; if less colour is required the petals should be strained from the

                          liquor three days earlier.
                          N.G.W.B.J.
                          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                          Wine, mead and beer maker

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                          • #28
                            thanks mate

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                            • #29
                              My pleasure

                              N.G.W.B.J.
                              Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                              Wine, mead and beer maker

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hello all, in cjj berry's book with regard to the sake recipe there is mention of making a second batch from the residue rice n raisins has anybody tried this out?
                                Thanks in anticipation,
                                Dave

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