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  • Elderberry Melomel

    Right here goes for an Elderberry Melomel:

    500g Dried Elderberries
    ~2kgs Rowes Honey (enough to give an SG of ~1.180)
    3tsp Tronozymol nutrient
    2tsp Citric Acid
    1/2tsp Tartaric acid
    1/4tsp Tannin
    1/4tsp Diammonium phosphate
    2 Vitamin B tablets
    1 sachet Gervin GV4/26 yeast
    Water to 1 gallon

    Honey dissolved in enough warm water to make up to 1 gallon then dried Elderberries added and 1tsp campden powder and all nutrients...
    Left for 48 hours on a heater mat in bucket to stabilise and stirred 3 times daily...
    Yeast put in starter bottle and added...
    After one week stirring twice daily, strained and transfered to a demijohn...

    Left to ferment until completion...
    ex ovo omnia
    Chemist, welder, homebrewer

  • #2
    Hum ?

    Well I would have made it in a bucket to start with, aerating at least once a day and checking the gravity at the same time (if need be, the aeration can be done with a decent sample of must/ferment in a liquidiser), then when it gets down to whatever gravity (would have checked the yeasts capability to work out how far down from the starting gravity, allowing about 30 or so points to drop to get to the yeast maximum published tolerance - as a guide when to move it to secondary).

    For example, with the above gravity of 1180 to 1000, using Bobs alcohol by volume chart, that suggests a %ABV of about 24 and a half percent. Which, IMO, is unrealistic in expectation. I don't know what the tolerance is for the Gervin yeast would be (are there any published figures ???), but I would have used something like K1V, as I seem to recall that "they" publish a tolerance of about 16%, and if you read "around the bazaars", it can be made to go to about 18% apparently (and that, I understand, isn't hard to do), so I'd have worked out a starting gravity that would have given me something like 20 % (1101-ish according to Bobs chart) and then if I managed to ferment it dry, or at least pretty close to 1000 then great, or even if the yeast had pooped at 18% then that would have been fine, as there would have been some residual sweetness, and less of a need to back sweeten.

    As it is, it looks to me, like it's gonna need plenty of aeration and then treat it as secondary after a drop of at least 100 points. Oh and you will, in all likelihood, have to add a bit more nutrient (I would have used 1tsp to start and then another one about 60 to 70 points down the scale and a final one when it's ready to treat as secondary) later on - only you'll be able to judge that one as there's no way of knowing how it's going to progress.

    I'm guessing, that even with careful management, you'd be lucky not to get a "stucky", or if it does work enough to ferment to the yeasts maximum you might need to fortify it so it's not too much like neat ribena in a glass.....

    And I also suspect that it'll need to age for quite some time (thinking years here.....)

    Good luck with it though Jim, it does read like rather an "extreme" recipe/ferment, even by the standards of some of those over at gotmead.

    regards

    jtfb
    Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

    Some blog ramblings

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    • #3
      Sorry, it is in a bucket at the minute

      I do most of my wines on a similar recipe, so really I'm just substituting sugar for honey...

      The GV4/26 yeast is supposed to be tollerant up to 21% with adequate nutrient levels, and if I have to wait all the better...
      I usually get quite a bit of crystalisation when maturing in demijohns, a lot of the acids and some sugar...
      I have found similar wines quite difficult to get started but once going it goes like mad!
      ex ovo omnia
      Chemist, welder, homebrewer

      Comment


      • #4
        Ive never tried substituting sugar for honey, does the honey taste remain once the yeaties have consumed it?

        Im not a huge fan of Mead but my father is he loves the stuff. I do however love elderberry wine so Id be interested to give this a go. I dont think that Id be patient enough to wait years to drink it like Fatbloke mentioned.

        What kind of level of flavour can you expect from dried Elderberries, ive only ever used them fresh.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not really a fan of dried as they can impart a slight bitterness.


          I would add the fruit (fresh or dried) late in the fermentation.


          Meads traditionally take a very very long time to mature to drinkability.
          N.G.W.B.J.
          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
          Wine, mead and beer maker

          Comment


          • #6
            Judging by the clarity of the blueberry I've done it appears to have matured quite rapidly over a matter of a few months so may well be on its way to being drinkable quite soon...

            I'm aware of Elderberry taking quite some time to mature, I'm going to try and keep it for a year, maybe two in bulk... The results are well worth the wait though


            I'm only a small drinker myself, wine wise, but have 5 x 1 gallon batches of various wines maturing now...
            I'm budgeting at bottling around December time as they went into bulk maturing just before Christmas...

            I have quite a bit of patience when it comes to saving things, I have quite a lot keeping me busy at the moment so once I know a wines clear and treated properly, I pop a date on a tag for when it's due to be bottled, make a note in my diary and then just forget about it...


            As regards flavour, the wine I made was full bodied IMHO. So I expect similar results from the melomel...
            I dare say a good comparrison could be made by making one batch from dried and one from fresh, unfortunately I don't have access to enough fresh Elderberries at the minute. Although I am working on it




            Apologies for any typos, I've just had my eyes done at the hospital and can't see a thing
            ex ovo omnia
            Chemist, welder, homebrewer

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fatbloke View Post

              I'm guessing, that even with careful management, you'd be lucky not to get a "stucky",....
              Well it had stuck, just as I was about to take the last day of primary and strain it

              I've had another yeast starter on the go today and have been adding half to the demijohn then enough wine back to top up...
              The starters on its second "swap" now and going like the clappers
              The main batch seems to be making a good start too


              Unfortunately this usually happens to me, I usually get bogged down with something so don't notice until it's too late
              Fortunately I have a large enough stock of backup yeast packets to see me through
              Last edited by Omniata; 05-02-2010, 09:33 PM.
              ex ovo omnia
              Chemist, welder, homebrewer

              Comment


              • #8
                Well it's been some time since last posting on this recipe, it had been sat for some time but thankfully enough water in the airlock to keep it safe...

                Just racked it today and there was very little sediment, the flavour of the Elderberries is quite intense but I'd expect that for it not having matured for very long...

                Popped it into a clean dark demijohn topping up with a little preservative and red concentrate mixed with some bentonite...

                Seems to be ok, only time will tell now, hehe...
                ex ovo omnia
                Chemist, welder, homebrewer

                Comment


                • #9
                  Cheers for the update Jim


                  let us know how it tastes when you eventually drink it

                  regards
                  bob
                  N.G.W.B.J.
                  Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                  Wine, mead and beer maker

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Jim
                    Pete the Instructor

                    It looks like Phil Donahue throwing up into a tuba

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Omniata View Post
                      Judging by the clarity of the blueberry I've done it appears to have matured quite rapidly over a matter of a few months so may well be on its way to being drinkable quite soon...
                      I made a blueberry melomel (right term) in June 2009, it tasted hot and what I can only describe as a muted taste.

                      I cracked open a bottle last night and its a totally different drink, smooth, excellent body and off dry. An excellent drink.

                      Don't rush it, it really does take that long to come round.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's all about the type of honey, how the berries are handled and when fruit additions are made.

                        Though its also fair to point out that some mead types can take many years to come good.....
                        Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

                        Some blog ramblings

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fatbloke View Post
                          It's all about the type of honey, how the berries are handled and when fruit additions are made.

                          Though its also fair to point out that some mead types can take many years to come good.....
                          From my limited mead making experience (about 6 gallons) I would say that all have taken far longer than wine I've made to come round.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by billybuntus View Post
                            From my limited mead making experience (about 6 gallons) I would say that all have taken far longer than wine I've made to come round.
                            Yes, it has a habit of being like that. The late great Brother Adam, by all accounts, used to age his for a minimum of 7 years....... in oak barrels.....
                            Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

                            Some blog ramblings

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One better way to deal with the driedelderberries is to coal soak the overnight in warm water, then simmer them for 15 minutes and allowtocoolto rooom tempreature overnight squishing the berries a little in a ferm bag, draing the bad and adding them to the rest of the must... We made a dried elderberry mead this year that might just end up being the best wiine we eever did make, got to sacrafice 2 gottles for the show. CC
                              WVMountaineer Jacks Elderberry and Meads USA

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