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  • #31
    Originally posted by koomber View Post
    I think there is a certain amount of OTT from some quarters regarding sanitization. After all booze has pretty much followed culture and civillisation and I'm certain they didn't have no-rinse sanitizers!





    Burn him/Ban him..

    Just kidding.. you have a point. Didn't the Romans invent the no rinse then?

    Also, how much of the ancient wine was rubbish. It may well have had alcohol in and get them drunk, but did they care for the taste?

    Personally, I'm after something tasty, the keeping it blurred bit is a bonus.

    Back on topic.. I vac racked 25 gallons with my Enolmatic today.. It does make it quick and easy!

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    • #32
      Nice one. koomber

      I agree with you - it can get OTT.

      I have friends in the Italian community, and they use tap water - and then only sometimes. 54 carboys often have a deep red patina on the inside. Makes your steam cleaner trigger finger itch - I can tell you.
      Last edited by Cellar_Rat; 07-04-2010, 08:06 AM.
      Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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      • #33
        Well.....

        no-one ever made bad wine by being too clean....


        However

        once you understand the fact that you cannot sterilise (100% of spoilage organisms eradicated) and even if you somehow managed it it would be unsterilised nano seconds later, you can relax a tad.

        We can only sanitise (99% removal of spoilage organisms)


        If I am handed wine that is in a dirty bottle (inside the bottle) I am almost certain that the wine inside wont taste good. (yet to be proven wrong on the show bench)

        We need to clean all visible dirt from our kit, and then do the best job we can on the sanitation front, but not become paranoid about it.

        I wash my kit thoroughly immediately after use (this makes removal of stuff much easier) and then sanitise with starsan or similar (I personally prefer not to use chlorine based products, but many do and are happy with them)then I rinse very very thoroughly (3 or 4 times) and then store (sealed if possible) with a 10% metabisulphite solution inside. They will stay sweet for months. I store my 60 litre bins this way, and at each grapefest my head is snapped back by the sulphite fumes when the lid comes off.....I know that 99% of spoilage organisms cant live in that environment so i'm a happy camper. Any kit that cant be stored sealed, gets a wash if necessary and then a spritz with 10% metabisulphite solution before use.

        Works for me.

        So don't get paranoid about cleaning, but don't get slack either.

        Brian....have you tasted any of the wine these guys who dont clean their kit properly make?

        I'm guessing its your standard rough as a badger's you know what, Italian stuff

        I got a couple of bottles from some of David Howgego's customers, and I couldn't believe how they could take quality grapes and turn it into the stuff I was given ICK!

        regards
        bob
        Last edited by lockwood1956; 07-04-2010, 09:42 AM.
        N.G.W.B.J.
        Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
        Wine, mead and beer maker

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        • #34
          Definitely badgers. I can spot them a mile away. The local chaps run comps - I have tasted the 'many years' winner. Oh dear. I really ought to enter - I nearly did last year.

          They ferment in wooden barrels which quite frankly would give me nighmare. And then have the audacity to tell me I don't know how to make wine when I suggest chapitalising the Seyval and watching out the acid, as these are not Trebbiano.

          PS I am still trying to get a bottle of this particular Seyval - made to the red method (stalks and all) with no added sugar. I suspect it will look like sherry, take a while to mature [about 500 years] and rot in the bottle, because the alocohol content is too low to preserve it.

          Italian winemakers quote "Campden tablet? Pot met? What is this witchcraft"
          Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Cellar_Rat View Post
            Italian winemakers quote "Campden tablet? Pot met? What is this witchcraft"
            Best keep it to yourself Brian

            I have visions of you being tarred and feathered and run out of town as a heretic!
            N.G.W.B.J.
            Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
            Wine, mead and beer maker

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Rich View Post
              Also, how much of the ancient wine was rubbish. It may well have had alcohol in and get them drunk, but did they care for the taste?
              Reading all this talk about unsanitary Italian winemaking methods reminded me of something I read awhile back about how their ancestors, the Romans, invented most of the sanitary methods we still use to this day. Adding sulphur dioxide to wine (as well as burning sulphur in wooden barrels) was a Roman invention, as was selectively using yeast strains capable of fermenting alcohol levels to 15%.

              I would imagine that at least some of the ancient wine was probably as good as anything made today. Their most prized wine (called Falernian), made from late-harvested grapes, was supposedly barrel aged for 15-20 years before being released. It came in both sweet and dry versions, and was expensive. The description makes it sound comparable to tawny port.

              Too bad the dark ages came along and wiped out all this knowledge.
              Last edited by NorthernWiner; 07-04-2010, 01:14 PM.
              Steve

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