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  • Elderflower Champs, sugar question.

    Hi all,

    Im planning to use the River Cottage recipe to make a batch of Elderflower Champagne.

    The recipe calls for 700g sugar to make roughly 6ltrs. I was considering adding a ltr of white grape juice to give it a bit more body.

    As the grape juice will have a good amount of sugar in it, how much should I reduce the sugar I add by? Is there a way to work this out?

    Thanks.
    Boo

  • #2
    Your hydrometer is your friend!!


    Be sure not to follow the river cottage methodology in regard to bottles, you must use bottles that can take the pressure. It freaks me out when i see the use of normal bottles for sparkly.....the pressure is too high even for beer bottles......never mind normal wine bottles
    N.G.W.B.J.
    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
    Wine, mead and beer maker

    Comment


    • #3
      Factoid: Fizzy in standard bottles = hand grenades.
      Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
        Your hydrometer is your friend!!


        Be sure not to follow the river cottage methodology in regard to bottles, you must use bottles that can take the pressure. It freaks me out when i see the use of normal bottles for sparkly.....the pressure is too high even for beer bottles......never mind normal wine bottles
        Cheers Bob, I have been collecting 1ltr plastic bottles- my wife drinks soda water, these should do the job.

        Re sugar- I could desolve the sugar in a pan, add the grape juice to the bucket and then add the syrup bit by bit until I reach the desired SG, that should do it?

        As a guide, what SG reading should I look to start at and at what reading would you bottle at? (sorry, I know the basics but have not made this before or anything that ends up fizzy, just checking Im not missing something).

        Also, do you think the addition of the grape juice would benefit the RC recipe?
        Boo

        Comment


        • #5
          I would aim for 10 to 11% alcohol....


          the river cottage recipe wont get you near that.... it produces a low alcohol unstable wine.....

          I certainly think the grape juice will add to the wine.


          I would adjust the start SG to around 1.070, ferment to dry, prime with 1 tsp sugar per bottle and allow to produce fizz.

          I would also likely use some non fermentable sugar to sweeten.

          You cant sorbate and add sugar as you normally would, or it won't carbonate.

          Wine sweetener would work if you have the type that doesn't contain sorbate. I use sorbitol, non fermentable sugar.
          N.G.W.B.J.
          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
          Wine, mead and beer maker

          Comment


          • #6
            Elderflower Champagne
            Makes 24 bottles

            Ingredients

            About 24-30 elderflower heads, in full bloom
            2kg sugar
            4 litres hot water
            Juice and zest of four lemons
            1-2 tablespoons white wine vinegar
            A pinch of dried yeast (you may not need this)
            Method

            Put the hot water and sugar into a large container (a spotlessly clean bucket is good) and stir until the sugar dissolves, then top up with cold water to 6 litres. Add the lemon juice and zest, the vinegar and the flower heads and stir gently. Cover with clean muslin and leave to ferment in a cool, airy place for a couple of days. Take a look at the brew at this point, and if it’s not becoming a little foamy and obviously beginning to ferment, add a pinch of yeast.
            Leave the mixture to ferment, again covered with muslin, for a further four days. Strain the liquid through a sieve lined with muslin and decant into sterilised glass bottles. Seal and leave to ferment in the bottles for a further eight days before serving, chilled.



            I dont think the above is a good recipe at all...


            try this variation:

            The flower petals only from the 24-30 elderflowers (shake the florets into a brown paper bag, if they dont shake off easily they aren't ready for use, and be sure to use the nice smelling ones, some smell a bit like cat pee)
            1 litre white grape juice
            1tsp yeast nutrient
            Sugar to 1.070
            juice and zest of the 4 lemons (no pith at all)
            NO WHITE WINE VINEGAR
            good quality wine yeast.
            Method

            Put the hot water and sugar into a large container (a spotlessly clean bucket is good) and stir until the sugar dissolves, then top up with cold water to 6 litres. Allow to cool, then, Add the lemon juice and zest, and the flower heads and stir gently. , preferable made as a yeast starter earlier. Cover and leave to ferment to dry, rack and bottle into champagne bottles or strong PET bottles, priming with 1 tsp sugar per bottle

            NO ORDINARY WINE BOTTLES!!....THEY WILL EXPLODE.... anyone advising you otherwise is a total idiot

            You may add non fermentable sugar at this stage to have a slightly sweeter wine, or use wine sweetener, as long as it is the type that doesn't contain potassium sorbate.


            Once the sparkly is primed, you can use the champagne method and turn the bottles upside down and give them a sharp twist every day, once the yeast deposit has settled in the neck of the bottle, you can pop them in the freezer, for around 1.5 to 2 hours, remove the cap, and take out the yeast deposit, it may pop out on its own,(do it over the sink) you can then top up, and refrigerate before serving. Alternatively you can just be careful pouring, as you would with a bottle conditioned beer.

            Hope that helps
            regards
            Bob
            Last edited by lockwood1956; 09-06-2010, 09:48 AM.
            N.G.W.B.J.
            Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
            Wine, mead and beer maker

            Comment


            • #7
              'NO WHITE WINE VINEGAR'

              Can I ask why? Does it do nasty things?

              Comment


              • #8
                yes it does

                the last thing you want near your wine is vinegar, we go to great lengths to keep out melanogaster drosophila (also known as fruit fly, or vinegar fly, it can cause acetification, and turn wine to vinegar) so why on earth anyone thinks adding vinegar is a good thing is beyond me.

                I love river cottage, but he should stick to cooking, its what he knows, cider and winemaking he is crap at, note he now adds cider vinegar to all his recipes, that's because he messed up his attempts at cider making and it acetified, I shudder every year when i look around winemaking and beer making forums and see people following this recipe and methodology, and it inevitably ends up with many posts from people sharing their exploding bottle stories, its only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured standing next to an exploding bottle, under this kind of pressure, they explode into tiny pieces and spread out a very long way.

                hope that helps

                regards
                Bob
                Last edited by lockwood1956; 09-06-2010, 10:40 AM.
                N.G.W.B.J.
                Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                Wine, mead and beer maker

                Comment


                • #9
                  That makes perfect sense

                  Why is it in all the grenade recipes?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    because they are formulated by eejuts, who don't know how to make good wine.

                    N.G.W.B.J.
                    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                    Wine, mead and beer maker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think I will give your recipe a go Bob.
                      Boo

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You going to Telford this year Boo?
                        N.G.W.B.J.
                        Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                        Wine, mead and beer maker

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Now, you'll be surprised to learn that despite my questions, I have never followed HFW recipe. Partly due to the fact that I wanted something with a bit more kick (%). I have however formulated a misguided mish mash of his and other recipes and CJJ Berry that did provided a decent dry sparkling wine last year.

                          Trouble is I did not write it down and this year I have added WWV!!!

                          I did SG to 1.075 and I am protecting it as much as possible from any nasties creeping in (fine muslin,lid, fine muslin tied tight). I will be straining and transferring to DJ's today under airlock.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                            You going to Telford this year Boo?
                            I dont think so, the stuff I casually make is light-years behind the quality that goes into these comps.

                            Id be happy to help out again if needed, when is it? I had a look in the 'Feds & Comps' section but nothing is mentioned about this years event, havent received an invite this year either.
                            Boo

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One other thing Bob, in your amendment to the recipe above, you suggested leaving it to ferment 'til dry before priming.

                              Can this be done in the bucket or should it have been racked into a DJ at an earlier stage?
                              Boo

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