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The Great Lychee Experiment

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  • The Great Lychee Experiment

    Having received the yeast from Cellar Rat I decided to use it to make a Lychee wine to Rich’s recipe but also to conduct a comparison trial at the same time. Due to running out of Lalvin D47 I had to use KI V1116 but figured it would be adequate for the trial.

    I doubled up Rich’s recipe as follows,

    4x 550g tins lychees in light syrup
    2x 250ml WGC
    1100g Sugar (1.080 is what I aimed for with hydrometer, big mistake! See below)
    4 tsp pectolase
    1/4 tsp tannin
    5tsp Tartaric acid.
    2 tsp nutrient
    4 tsp bentonite

    Because I only have one small fermentation bucket I decided to ferment in demijohns and because of this I put the lychees in a food processor to chop them down small enough to fit through a funnel.

    I added the finely chopped lychees, syrup, grape concentrate and remainder of ingredients to the bucket, added water and then kept adding sugar syrup until I got 1.082 on my hydrometer and 2 gallons. I was conscious of Richard S’s post in the same thread where he used the same amount of sugar as Rich and had an SG of over 1.100 so I added sugar a bit at a time to avoid this. The consistency of the must was like a soup and it didn’t occur to me that all the pulp could give a false hydrometer reading (newbie mistake to learn from) until a little later.

    I filled both djs to the shoulders and then hydrated both yeasts as per Lalvin instructions. It was noticeable that Cellar Rats yeast didn’t hydrate as easily as the Lalvin but was reasonably well dispersed by the time came to pitch it in. Both yeasts were within a couple of degrees c of the must at time of pitching.

    It was at this time that I had serious doubts about the accuracy of the hydrometer reading and remembered I had a refractometer. The refractomter confirmed my fears and it showed I only had an SG of 1.070. Topping up will hopefully rectify that.

    The Lalvin lychee dj is at 20c and Cellar Rats lychee is in the coldest room in the house at 16c/17c.

    Rob

  • #2
    Within a couple of hours the Lalvin version was away but Cellar Rats version is very reluctant or slow to start.

    These photos were taken 24hrs after pitching the yeast. The CR version does have a few tiny bubbles on the surface and has been given a shake a few times but the pulp keeps settling out. I was a little concerned that I had killed the yeast or something was wrong but having read mcblades post that his brew is also very slow in starting, I will just wait and see.

    [IMG] IMAG0017 by rob.carr, on Flickr[/IMG]
    [IMG] IMAG0016 by rob.carr, on Flickr[/IMG]
    [IMG] IMAG0015 by rob.carr, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Last edited by robwrx; 06-02-2011, 10:07 PM. Reason: Photo link not working

    Comment


    • #3
      HI,

      I too liquidized tinned lychees for a brew last year. I think in hindsight it was a mistake as the must took ages to filter from the primary to secondary and had to keep emptying cheesecloths. Last time (before discovering rubicon lychee drink) I roughly chopped the lychees and stuck them in a pair of clean tights. This was much easier, but chafed a bit .

      Also, even liquidised you will get a load of gunk in the neck of the DJ so watch out for volcanoes. I used K1V for all mine and think it's a great yeast if you don't mind cleaning up the mess when it goes mad.

      cheers

      Mark

      http://markblades.com
      Bebere cerevisiae immodoratio
      These days I'm drinking in Charcot's Joint.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by robwrx View Post
        The Lalvin lychee dj is at 20c and Cellar Rats lychee is in the coldest room in the house at 16c/17c.
        Why two different temperatures?

        Maybe I'm just not understanding the experiment, but it seems to me that if you want to compare two yeasts, then they should ideally both be at the same temperature. Otherwise, the fermentation kinetics are going to be different and you won't know if any differences were caused by the yeast, or caused by the temperature variation.
        Steve

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi

          In my case, I was going to say that the temp differences were used as they were considered optimum for the yeasts concerned (see cellar rats info). However, I just looked up K1V1116 and it ferments from 10-35C!

          So in my case at least the temperature differences are due to not looking at the datasheets properly and the results may be altered as you suggest.

          Well, you live and learn...eventually

          regards

          Mark
          Last edited by mcblades; 07-02-2011, 11:31 PM.

          http://markblades.com
          Bebere cerevisiae immodoratio
          These days I'm drinking in Charcot's Joint.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mcblades View Post

            In my case, I was going to say that the temp differences were used as they were considered optimum for the yeasts concerned (see cellar rats info). However, I just looked up K1V1116 and it ferments from 10-35C!

            So in my case at least the temperature differences are due to not looking at the datasheets properly and the results may be altered as you suggest.
            Hmmmm! I've made the same mistake.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mcblades View Post
              I just looked up K1V1116 ...
              Two things will survive a nuclear war. Cockroaches and K1V.
              Pete the Instructor

              It looks like Phil Donahue throwing up into a tuba

              Comment


              • #8
                The Great Lychee Failure!!!!

                Originally posted by NorthernWiner View Post
                Why two different temperatures?

                Maybe I'm just not understanding the experiment, but it seems to me that if you want to compare two yeasts, then they should ideally both be at the same temperature. Otherwise, the fermentation kinetics are going to be different and you won't know if any differences were caused by the yeast, or caused by the temperature variation.
                Steve

                I'm a newbie to wine making and I'm still learning. I've always (since December ) fermented Lalvin yeasts at 20c but the literature for the white yeast in this trial said its optimum temperature is 16c so being a good soldier I did as I was told

                It is pretty irrelevant now as I am nearly 56 hours since pitching the yeast and there is absolutely no sign of life. The bubbles in the photo are probably just residual bubbles from the shaking of the dj.

                Cellar Rat, Bob, anyone? I need some suggestions please.

                The must for both djs was mixed in one bucket. Both yeasts were rehydrated at 40c for 15mins as per Lalvin instructions. Both yeasts were cooled by adding a little must over about a further 5 mins until within 4c-5c. The only difference has been the room temperature. The Lalvin version started within a few hours, has a good foamy head on it and is going like a lava lamp.

                I'm at a loss as what has gone wrong and what I can do to salvage the situation

                Rob

                Comment


                • #9
                  A slight aside here, but you do present an interesting case for these sorts of thing when setting up an experiment. If the optimum temperature is different what do you do?

                  1) A range of temperatures around the optimum of each and wind up with potentially dozens of tests?

                  2) The optimum for each yeast? But then is the difference down to the yeast or the temperature?

                  3) A middle-for-diddle approach and pick a temperature between each and get something that neither yeast prefer.

                  This is why research can suck so much. And Guaranteed whatever way you choose to do it, you'll need to do it all over again another way.

                  From my hazy (and probably wrong) memories of D47, it is a slow starter. I say leave it and see what happens.
                  Dutch Gunderson: Who are you and how did you get in here?
                  Frank Drebin: I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.
                  -Police Squad

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Rob, it doesn't sound like you have done anything wrong.

                    16c may be the optimum fermentation temperature, but you may find that it is very slow to start when the must is that cool. Even if you bring the cooler DJ into a warmer environment, a gallon of must takes a while to change its temperature.

                    I would measure the temperature of the must itself, then give it a good stir, trying to bring the yeast up from the bottom of the DJ into suspension and introduce oxygen to help them multiply.

                    Finally, I would measure the SG, because you never know .
                    Pete the Instructor

                    It looks like Phil Donahue throwing up into a tuba

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In my opinion 16 is too cool, if you have a brew belt now is the time. I have some individual heated tiles I would stand it on, I have know people stand stuff on radiators or aga's. Perhaps a bain marie (but not fully boiling - say 70c)

                      Bring it gently up to 20c and them see if you can hold it there.

                      Perhaps add a little nutrient (does in pong?) - AND SHAKE IT HARD

                      PS which yeast did you use - red or white?
                      Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by goldseal View Post
                        Two things will survive a nuclear war. Cockroaches and K1V.
                        LOL but very true. In my limited experience (only 2-3 runs per year) it performs better that even its sibling on grape.

                        I did Merlot on 212 and Monty on 1116 and wished I put 1116 in the Merlot (again)

                        5g in 300 litres is nice too..
                        Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think it has finally started!

                          Originally posted by Cellar_Rat View Post
                          In my opinion 16 is too cool, if you have a brew belt now is the time. I have some individual heated tiles I would stand it on, I have know people stand stuff on radiators or aga's. Perhaps a bain marie (but not fully boiling - say 70c)

                          Bring it gently up to 20c and them see if you can hold it there.

                          Perhaps add a little nutrient (does in pong?) - AND SHAKE IT HARD

                          PS which yeast did you use - red or white?
                          Hi Cellar Rat

                          I checked this morning and although the must has settled out again overnight and there is no sign of yeast activity/foam/bubbles on the surface, there is now pressure in the air lock and a bubble of gas is passing through about once every 5 mins. Time elapsed @ 8.00am this morning, 65hrs.

                          I used the white yeast. I read the literature and it says optimum temperature of 12c-16c so that is what I did.

                          Raising the temperature is not an issue and I have now put the dj in a warmer room which should bring it up to 19c-20c.

                          Rob

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by goldseal View Post
                            I would measure the temperature of the must itself, then give it a good stir, trying to bring the yeast up from the bottom of the DJ into suspension and introduce oxygen to help them multiply.

                            Finally, I would measure the SG, because you never know .
                            The must was 15c this morning and I have been shaking and stirring every day.

                            I will try to measure the SG tonight when I get home but due to seeing some activity in the airlock this morning, I think we are finally away.

                            Cellar Rat has suggested raising the temperature and I have now done that.

                            Cheers
                            Rob

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I wonder if mne started better because I make my must up at 22-26C. Although it cooled down to 15-17C overnight maybe the initial high temp kick started it.

                              regards

                              mark

                              http://markblades.com
                              Bebere cerevisiae immodoratio
                              These days I'm drinking in Charcot's Joint.

                              Comment

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