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  • What grapes should you buy?

    while we are still in pre grapefest mode......

    please feel free to post questions regarding what you can make from the different varietals available to you....

    there is a huuuuuuuge range of wines you can make with different mixes/blends of the grapes available to us.

    for example:

    Merlot on its own will produce a really round fruit driven wine, mixed with garnacha (grenache) it will be deeper in colour, and a little more Rioja like, mixed 40/60 with sangiovese it will produce a chianti style, mixed 60/40 it will be more like a bordeaux (but not the same)

    doing 2nd runs on these blends will produce a similar but lighter in style version that will be drinkable earlier

    there are many many different options when processing the grapes, like say taking a 5 gal lot of grapes, and bleeding 1 gallon of juice off at the start and fermenting it on its own will produce a nice rose, the remeaining 4 gallons becoming much fuller and richer, having all the winemaking goodies concentrated into 4 gals

    hope this helps you to decide what to get......

    if not, now is the time to ask the questions....we will of course(for all you newbies) guide you every step of the way, and answer questions as we go.

    for those who are not on board yet, it isnt too late to join the fun, wine making is friend making. Even if you dont make wine this time, its fun to be around the process, and you will learn from the day

    looking forward to seeing you all at my place in just over a week

    regards
    bob
    N.G.W.B.J.
    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
    Wine, mead and beer maker

  • #2
    If you are really unsure, its a good idea to try to make a wine like the wine you normally buy.....

    so ask away

    there is a ton of experience at your disposal with greapefes'ites

    if you are new...you will learn more in one day than you can possibly imagine (and have a ton of fun)
    N.G.W.B.J.
    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
    Wine, mead and beer maker

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    • #3
      With regards to the non-Merlot Wines, what sort of wine would they produce on their own?
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      • #4
        Grenache will produce fab colour, but its a bit one dimensional and thin on its own, it is a great blending wine.

        Ciliegiolo will produce a fruity medium bodied wine that is an easy drinker, and doesnt need (but benefits from) ageing

        Sangiovese will produce an earthy tone, that i suspect may be managed out of the wine by careful choice of yeast and fermentation management.

        Trebbiano is a plain white wine, fruity if fermented clean.

        what sort of wine are you after producing Graham? i will do my best to advise?

        fermentation techniques as well as yeast choice and nutrient and temp management can radically alter the finished wine, in terms of colour, body, and taste.

        regards
        bob
        N.G.W.B.J.
        Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
        Wine, mead and beer maker

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        • #5
          Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
          Grenache will produce fab colour, but its a bit one dimensional and thin on its own, it is a great blending wine.

          Ciliegiolo will produce a fruity medium bodied wine that is an easy drinker, and doesnt need (but benefits from) ageing

          Sangiovese will produce an earthy tone, that i suspect may be managed out of the wine by careful choice of yeast and fermentation management.

          Trebbiano is a plain white wine, fruity if fermented clean.

          what sort of wine are you after producing Graham? i will do my best to advise?

          fermentation techniques as well as yeast choice and nutrient and temp management can radically alter the finished wine, in terms of colour, body, and taste.

          regards
          bob
          I like a big fruity wine. I do like tannin, but I prefer it balanced rather than needing to go and get a pry bar to remove my lips from my teeth.

          I like last years merlot quite a bit and the one rich made was ace from 2009.

          I was toying with the idea of buying enough merlot and grenache to make 7.5 gallons of each, ferment on the skins and then when racking to the better bottle, having 1 merlot, 1 grenache and 1 blend. Use RC-212 for all three.

          Not sure about doing that now if the grenache is likely to be a bit thin.
          Dutch Gunderson: Who are you and how did you get in here?
          Frank Drebin: I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.
          -Police Squad

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          • #6
            You may wish to consider a cold soak on merlot (keeping the must temp cool enough to prevent fermentation for a few days to extract more phenols, and perhaps an extended maceration at the end, covering the must with a blanket of inert gas to further aid extraction.

            try the BM45 yeast trhat brian has too, this will also enhance things (i think)

            regards
            bob
            N.G.W.B.J.
            Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
            Wine, mead and beer maker

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            • #7
              Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
              You may wish to consider a cold soak on merlot (keeping the must temp cool enough to prevent fermentation for a few days to extract more phenols, and perhaps an extended maceration at the end, covering the must with a blanket of inert gas to further aid extraction.

              try the BM45 yeast trhat brian has too, this will also enhance things (i think)

              regards
              bob
              Cheers Bob. I can probably launch it into my beer fermentation fridge for that. Do you think I'll be okay with the Grenache?
              Dutch Gunderson: Who are you and how did you get in here?
              Frank Drebin: I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.
              -Police Squad

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              • #8
                Would blending happen only after fermenting? Probably a silly question but as a newbie to wine making I have yet to look into blending and certainly not had a go yet.

                Rob

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by koomber View Post
                  Do you think I'll be okay with the Grenache?
                  yes, its an ok varietal, and you could make more of it given the right conditions

                  Originally posted by robwrx View Post
                  Would blending happen only after fermenting?
                  no, you can blend pre ferment, but its easier to make less mistakes after ferment. but either way is ok

                  for both of you....we can discuss options available to you on the day, and you can make a more informed choice then, but if you want to pop up some blending options pre ferment, im sure the panel can offer advice

                  regards
                  bob
                  N.G.W.B.J.
                  Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                  Wine, mead and beer maker

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                  • #10
                    are these ideas stupid or ok. have 6 cigi 6 grenache and 5 merlot

                    rose
                    1 cigi rose
                    1 grenache rose
                    1/2 cigi/1/2 grenache rose


                    Reds
                    3 merlot/2 grenache
                    1/2 cigi/1/2 grenache
                    2 merlot
                    4 cigi
                    2 grenache

                    will separate juice for rose then ferment others and blend once pressed
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                    • #11
                      I hadn't thought about blending when I placed my order. My plan was to aim for a minimum of 5 gallons of each for ease of bulk ageing with hopefully the odd half a dj left over.

                      Might have to give this a bit more thought.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by robwrx View Post
                        Would blending happen only after fermenting? Probably a silly question but as a newbie to wine making I have yet to look into blending and certainly not had a go yet.

                        Rob
                        in 2008 I did a pre ferment blend of sangiovese & grenache 60/40 ratio, it fermented well and the grenache seemed to take away the earthy tone of the sangiovese. So maybe something to consider.
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                        • #13
                          You can make it as simple or as complicated as you wish.........


                          the learning comes from processing and fermenting the grapes, blending is something one can do, but if you are not confident about it, I would ferment the batches seperately and blend afterwards, this way there is more room for error.

                          The fermenting process has many steps that are available to you, but you dont have to apply all of the options. Remember help is always available from the new winemaking friends you will make at grapefest.

                          info on blending here:


                          info on various steps here:
                          Red wine


                          white wine


                          hope that helps
                          regards
                          bob
                          N.G.W.B.J.
                          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                          Wine, mead and beer maker

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Duffbeer View Post
                            in 2008 I did a pre ferment blend of sangiovese & grenache 60/40 ratio, it fermented well and the grenache seemed to take away the earthy tone of the sangiovese. So maybe something to consider.
                            Interested to know if you think it removed it or the 'less earthy taste' was achieved by there being 40% less Sangiovese to start with.

                            BM45 is my bet to remove it - this is the commercial yeast choice for Sangiovese and having tasted a few recenly made with BM45 (hic ;D) there is not an earthy taste. Having said that there is more to the process than just choice of yeast.

                            Worthy to note fruit (fermentation) blending and wine blending are very different things. Even if the same proportions are used with the same grapes the final wines will be different. All to do with what is present in the fermenation. I am trynig some bizarre stuff this year, which will be marmite (I will love it or hate it ...and prolly myself too for doing it.)
                            Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cellar_Rat View Post
                              Worthy to note fruit (fermentation) blending and wine blending are very different things. Even if the same proportions are used with the same grapes the final wines will be different.
                              good point Brian,

                              Perhaps though (it just occurred to me) we are scaring everyone with all this info?

                              main thing to remember for everyone is that this is fun fun fun fun fun, and you shouldn't worry too much about any aspect of it, as help is close at hand for any and every eventuality. If it is your first venture into grape wine making, try not to over complicate things too much, and enjoy the ride. (I'm getting excited now)

                              regards
                              bob
                              N.G.W.B.J.
                              Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                              Wine, mead and beer maker

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