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  • #16
    Couldn't agree more.

    You can make red or white from grapes really simply, and if you are doing reds you don't actually need a press either (unless you have a weak grip or are prone to RSI).

    I think it is important to say that Sangiovese can sometimes have an earthy tone. It doesn't taste like a cup of soil dissolved in water .

    The 08 Ciliegiolo came out ink-dark and rich-tasting. The 09 came out medium-bodied, strawberry/cherry-tasting but with a kick bigger than its colour suggested. This year? Who knows?

    My advice would be to pick two reds and the white, go with a low-maintenance yeast and have fun - basically what Bob said .
    Pete the Instructor

    It looks like Phil Donahue throwing up into a tuba

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    • #17
      Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
      Perhaps though (it just occurred to me) we are scaring everyone with all this info?
      I asked my father some time ago why he liked golf so much - his answer was because he keeps improving his game & two rounds were never the same? Now there's a thing!

      Are we scaring everyone? or just proving to them that winemaking is a dangerous drug, that is highly addictive and perhaps ought to be listed
      Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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      • #18
        Hi Guys n Gals,
        Here is my plan based on the grapes I have ordered. Would you mind checking it out / suggesting improvements? Thanks.

        Merlot – Style, dark oaky merlot, for long(ish) term ageing +/- 5 gallons.
        Yeast: RC212 – Aiming for darker, fuller flavour with extended maceration.
        At GF
        After reception of grapes add 2 ice-bombs.
        Add 2.5ml/gallon 10% K-Meta.
        Add pectolase – 2 tsp per gallon? (as I don’t have Trenolin etc).
        At home
        Do necessary tests/adjustments to must
        Replace ice bombs.
        Prepare Yeast.
        Add Tronozymol to manufacturers dose.
        1 rounded teaspoon/gallon Bentonite added.
        Pitch Yeast (Tuesday evening)?
        Add oak after primary fermentation and primary tasting.
        Intend to MLF.

        Ciliegiolo – Fruity red, maybe lightly oaked, drinkable after 1 year +/- 5 gallons.Yeast: K1V – fruitier wine. Starter prepared Friday AM.
        At GF
        Add 5ml/gallon 10% K-meta.
        Add pectolase – 2 tsp per gallon (I don’t have Trenolin).
        At Home
        Do necessary tests/adjustments to must.
        Add bentonite – 1 rounded teaspoon per gallon.
        Pitch yeast starter.
        After primary – add oak to taste.
        Simon
        "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

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        • #19
          Sounds good to me, however it could all change on the day, We are finding year on year that every harvest is different, the merlot may well give a good colour upon normal crushing, though I will have some rohament p enzyme which will perform better than standard pectolase (not a sales pitch ).
          I have found on occasion that too long in contact with the skins can impart bitterness from over tannin and flavour from small stems.

          I would advise to keep your plan of action as above, but be prepared to change it on the day, there will be much discussion from many of the regular GFesters as to which way we'll go, and we wi'll not likely agree with each other but that's grape winemaking for ya.
          Discount Home Brew Supplies
          Chairman of 5 Towns Wine & Beer Makers Circle!
          Convenor of Judges YFAWB Show Committee
          National Wine Judge
          N.G.W.B.J Member

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          • #20
            The 09 ciliegiolo producced a light style red, but with a bit of a punch (I'm brining a bottle on Friday). It was made with K1V, which worked well.

            I would add a little oak in the primary too. This isn't to add oakiness to the wine, but it does apparently improve things like colour stability, and a few other things I can't think of right now

            Rohament/Rohapect - DAMN - know I'd forgotten something! Karl, new PM with revised order will be arriving soon

            EDIT: I'm not entirely sure bentonite is a good idea, but I'd be interested to hear the reasoning
            Last edited by goldseal; 05-09-2011, 10:51 AM. Reason: Can't spell Clilii, silly ... chilli ... oh, never mind
            Pete the Instructor

            It looks like Phil Donahue throwing up into a tuba

            Comment


            • #21
              Thanks guys. Karl - sold on the Rohament P, I'll have some. I'll re-PM you when I have checked my yeast/oak stocks tonight.

              I may try French oak at start of fermentation (as per last year) and American for ageing then.

              I have tended to now add Bentonite to everything (reds and whites) at the start of fermentation. I read it somewhere - can't remember where and although I might be seeing things that I want to believe in, to me, fermentation seems to be calmer and although in red wines rogue proteins shouldn't be a problem they just could be. I also find that more solids come out on the first racking meaning I lose less wine overall.

              I should be up on Friday afternoon so I wouldn't mind picking your brains (and trying the Ciliegiolo) then.

              Understood - my plan is all dependent on the grapes.
              Simon
              "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post

                Perhaps though (it just occurred to me) we are scaring everyone with all this info?
                Scared? No.
                Confused, unsure, worried, anxious and ready to call the Samaritans? yes!!!

                I like most wines whether they be red, white or rose and I like to think I know a fine wine when I taste one. If I was going to treat myself to an expensive bottle of red it could be a Bordeaux or a South African Pinot Noir or an Australian Cabernet Shiraz. If it were to be a bottle of white then I would go for a Sancerre or Pouilly Fume or maybe a New Zealand Marlborough Sauvingnon Blanc. But I also love a good Chardonnay and Rioja but what I haven't drunk much of is Italian wine.

                A couple of months ago I picked up a bottle of Sangiovese and a bottle of Montepulciano in preparation for choosing grapes for grapefest. Both bottles were 2010 vintage and I liked them very much. They were smooth and fruity with quite complex flavours and no harsh tannins and I thought I would love to try and replicate them.

                The earlier posts in this thread demonstrate that wine making is so multi dimensional and the options open to us seem virtually limitless but as a grapefest virgin I think I'd like to go down the KISS route.

                My plan A is to stick with my original order of Sangiovese, Merlot and Trebbiano, ferment both reds with BDX yeast as individual varieties and perhaps have a go at blending the finished wines. I would leave some as single variety, mix some 60/40 to produce a Chianti style and some 40/60 to produce a Bordeaux style. I would however like some advice on fermenting with oak and oak additions during ageing.

                There was some talk awhile ago about Malolactic fermentation which should produce a better quality wine. I would still like to try it Bob if it is still on the cards.

                The Trebbiano I was planning on using D47 and aiming for a crisp dry but fruity white.

                Then of course there is the second runs which I was wondering if I could combine both the Sangiovese and Merlot skins to produce an early drinking light red of some kind

                I am really looking forwards to meeting everyone and picking everyones brains on Saturday and probably thoroughly confusing myself further. All advice offered is gratefully received.

                Regards
                Rob

                PS What time is kickoff on Saturday?

                Comment


                • #23
                  There will be much discussion about these and many other topics on sat...

                  we aim to start at 10.30
                  N.G.W.B.J.
                  Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                  Wine, mead and beer maker

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by robwrx View Post
                    There was some talk awhile ago about Malolactic fermentation which should produce a better quality wine. I would still like to try it Bob if it is still on the cards.
                    should be

                    The Trebbiano I was planning on using D47 and aiming for a crisp dry but fruity white.
                    that will be possible, but the juice needs to be clarified before ferment starts (more on that on sat~)

                    Then of course there is the second runs which I was wondering if I could combine both the Sangiovese and Merlot skins to produce an early drinking light red of some kind
                    that will certainly work (more details on sat and in the days/weeks following)

                    regards
                    Bob
                    N.G.W.B.J.
                    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                    Wine, mead and beer maker

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                    • #25
                      Thanks Bob.

                      I feel like an apprentice again

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                      • #26
                        Right Rob,

                        Expect n different opinions, where n is the number of people expressing an opinion .

                        KISS is definitely the way to go.

                        Personally, I wouldn't try Malolactic for your first go. It requires you to keep the wine relatively warm and with low sulphite levels, so maybe something to worry about next year? Just my opinion though.

                        BDX seems a decent choice for your reds, and D47 should be good for the Trebbiano.

                        Oak - don't put this anywhere near the Trebbiano . For the reds, I'd add a small amount of oak chips to the primary (for various chemistry-related reasons rather than for adding oakiness to the wine). During ageing in the carboy, I'd add oak, but the choice is yours whether you go for French or American, and what toast level. Saturday would be a good time to have a look and sniff at the various oaks Karl has available, and make your choice. I'd lean towards medium toast French, but it is a matter of personal preference.

                        Second runs:

                        Ideas:

                        1. Add the skins to a kit, to beef it up. Not my favourite route, because it will still be fundamentally a kit, and the addition of skins will probably mean it needs to age longer

                        2. Make a Wine No.1, get it going with something like K1V, then dunk a bag of skins into the fermenting must for a day or two. Result: rosé Wine No.1 which requires minimal ageing.

                        3. Make a strawberry/raspberry based must, SG around 1.065 - 1.070, get it going with K1V, then add the bag of skins, maybe for three or four days. Once backsweetened, the result should be a light, fruity 'barbeque red', probably around 10% alc, along the lines of the Island Mist kits but with more oomph and body. I'll bring a bottle to GF.

                        4. Join the latest craze - grab a Munton's Black Cherry kit from Karl, and make Black Cherry Port. Everybody is doing it
                        Pete the Instructor

                        It looks like Phil Donahue throwing up into a tuba

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          There is a lot of advice and a lot of different ways of doing things which is why (after last year) I decided to have a plan, but based on the Red (or White) fermentation guide that is found here http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/s...ead.php?t=2046.

                          At least as a basis for change.

                          Why after last year? Well, I tried to be organised but forgot one or two of the things I had thought about in advance. The wines I have made though are by no means bad (IMO) but, like a golfer, I always convince myself that the next shot can be even better.
                          Simon
                          "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Pete, Simon thanks for replies.

                            I quite like the second run option 2 as I assume that would give me the greatest yield but I would be interested in trying your barbecue red before making my mind up

                            The malolactic fermentation does add a complication but I seem to remember being convinced by a thread earlier this year that it was the way to go, I guess it will come up in conversation on Saturday so a decision can be made then. Thanks for the input though.

                            Simon, I think a written comprehensive plan is a very good idea especially as there are so many processes that could be b******d up.

                            Rob

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by robwrx View Post
                              Pete, Simon thanks for replies.

                              I quite like the second run option 2 as I assume that would give me the greatest yield but I would be interested in trying your barbecue red before making my mind up

                              The malolactic fermentation does add a complication but I seem to remember being convinced by a thread earlier this year that it was the way to go, I guess it will come up in conversation on Saturday so a decision can be made then. Thanks for the input though.

                              Simon, I think a written comprehensive plan is a very good idea especially as there are so many processes that could be b******d up.

                              Rob
                              With any luck I'll have a half dozen or so kits for testing for MLF with me. Still need to make them at work but tha should be the work of a day.
                              Dutch Gunderson: Who are you and how did you get in here?
                              Frank Drebin: I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.
                              -Police Squad

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by koomber View Post
                                With any luck I'll have a half dozen or so kits for testing for MLF with me. Still need to make them at work but tha should be the work of a day.
                                Pete the Instructor

                                It looks like Phil Donahue throwing up into a tuba

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