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  • This years Grape order

    Frozen grapes for grape-fest?

    Bob and I are considering the possibility of delivering all the grapes from frozen stock. These will have been collected and processed during August and September. On the day the entire grape order will be delivered in 25 L frozen drums, ready to go.

    Benefits
    • Freshness would be preserved.
    • Early varieties would be available.
    • Members get their first choice of grape variety
    • Easier to schedule grape-fest - probably even two per year?
    • It would give us more time to cover educational/experimental topics and possibly also include beer making, as we would have a little more time.

    Freshness
    Buying fresh grapes is always a risk and consequently a bit of a nightmare. Trying to make sure everybody gets what they want, in a timely manner, while making sure they arrive fresh.

    Typically the lorries arrive from the continent midweek, and until last year the grapes have which was shown been kept in refrigerated warehouses once unloaded (but not last year). The grapes are then collected on Friday for crushing at grape-fest on Saturday. So by the time they arrive they have probably had for possibly five days at ambient temperature. Which is not ideal.

    Early varieties
    Last year grape-fest missed the Shiraz grape and the white Monty I seem to recall. Which was a shame because the Shiraz was quite spectacular (hic !!). If we use frozen grapes this would not be an issue, everybody could have their first choices on the widest selection available.
    We can be there when the lorries arrive we can get the grapes and get them processed & frozen same day. Not quite Birds Eye peas that you get my drift

    Scheduling the event
    Scheduling when to have great-fest is always a challenge... too early in September you run the risk of bad weather delaying harvest. Too late and you run the risk of missing the best of the grapes completely. Further there is potential to have a second grape-fest - perhaps a spring catch up event, where we could have a mah-hoo-sive tasting, comparing notes and learning from each other. I for one would certainly value a wine judges opinion on my wines (no pressure there then Bob )

    Obvious questions

    Why not do both?
    The logistics are complicated enough already, those of you at the curry last year will recall the grapes didn't arrive until 21:00 on the Friday evening. I do not believe there is enough hours in the day to do both.

    Would we still order boxes of grapes?
    No, the unit of measurement will be 25 L. Which should yield 26 to 30 bottles, depending on your recipe and your wrist action (on the press J)

    We can stay with fresh grapes?
    Potentially yes - but not both.

    Cost?
    This is always a difficult one, because until September we do not know what the price of the grapes will be. The Italian growers got a little bit silly last year. I do not aim to make a profit on the grapes, but obviously need to cover expenses. There was not a price increase last year and with hindsight there probably should have been.
    This is not a business for me, this is not my day job - I do it as a hobby. Because of the cost of the drums, consumables and processing there will be increase in price on fresh, however this will be kept to a minimum. Bob and I also believe that members would be pleased with better results, guaranteed freshness & greater variety

    Does freezing affect the grapes?
    Yes but only in a positive way. If you think about it you are getting a cold maceration for free. In the tests I have been doing over the past few years frozen grapes deliver more flavour and give a better extraction than fresh. This is to do with the way the ice crystals are formed, and I'm quite happy to bore you with the details over a curry

    Will you supply Brix & Total acidity measurements?
    Yes and no. The Brix reading does stay consistent after thawing, however this is not the case for total acidity. I am more than happy to provide the Brix measurements if requested.

    Although we are potentially changing the method of delivery, the grapes are still being provided as an ingredient and not a kit, so that the winemaker retains the uniqueness of his recipe.


    Please post your thoughts ...
    26
    The processing of fresh grapes
    0%
    3
    The talks and demos
    0%
    2
    Getting an opinion on my wine (from someone quailified to give it)
    0%
    1
    Mingling with other wine makers and gaining knowledge from them
    0%
    6
    A general social event where friends were made
    0%
    4
    Starting fires (Simon)
    0%
    1
    All of the above
    0%
    1
    Frankie Boyle/Proclaimer jibes at koomber
    0%
    4
    Singing "i would walk 500 miles"
    0%
    4
    Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

  • #2
    +1 for frozen grapes. The wines I made last year from your shiraz and merlot are proving very difficult to leave alone! I doubt many will last the year.

    http://markblades.com
    Bebere cerevisiae immodoratio
    These days I'm drinking in Charcot's Joint.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cellar_Rat
      Frozen grapes for grape-fest?

      Bob and I are considering the possibility of delivering all the grapes from frozen stock. These will have been collected and processed during August and September. On the day the entire grape order will be delivered in 25 L frozen drums, ready to go.

      Benefits
      • Freshness would be preserved.
      • Early varieties would be available.
      • Members get their first choice of grape variety
      • Easier to schedule grape-fest - probably even two per year?
      • It would give us more time to cover educational/experimental topics and possibly also include beer making, as we would have a little more time.

      Freshness
      Buying fresh grapes is always a risk and consequently a bit of a nightmare. Trying to make sure everybody gets what they want, in a timely manner, while making sure they arrive fresh.

      Typically the lorries arrive from the continent midweek, and until last year the grapes have which was shown been kept in refrigerated warehouses once unloaded (but not last year). The grapes are then collected on Friday for crushing at grape-fest on Saturday. So by the time they arrive they have probably had for possibly five days at ambient temperature. Which is not ideal.

      Early varieties
      Last year grape-fest missed the Shiraz grape and the white Monty I seem to recall. Which was a shame because the Shiraz was quite spectacular (hic !!). If we use frozen grapes this would not be an issue, everybody could have their first choices on the widest selection available.
      We can be there when the lorries arrive we can get the grapes and get them processed & frozen same day. Not quite Birds Eye peas that you get my drift

      Scheduling the event
      Scheduling when to have great-fest is always a challenge... too early in September you run the risk of bad weather delaying harvest. Too late and you run the risk of missing the best of the grapes completely. Further there is potential to have a second grape-fest - perhaps a spring catch up event, where we could have a mah-hoo-sive tasting, comparing notes and learning from each other. I for one would certainly value a wine judges opinion on my wines (no pressure there then Bob )

      Obvious questions

      Why not do both?
      The logistics are complicated enough already, those of you at the curry last year will recall the grapes didn't arrive until 21:00 on the Friday evening. I do not believe there is enough hours in the day to do both.

      Would we still order boxes of grapes?
      No, the unit of measurement will be 25 L. Which should yield 26 to 30 bottles, depending on your recipe and your wrist action (on the press J)

      We can stay with fresh grapes?
      Potentially yes - but not both.

      Cost?
      This is always a difficult one, because until September we do not know what the price of the grapes will be. The Italian growers got a little bit silly last year. I do not aim to make a profit on the grapes, but obviously need to cover expenses. There was not a price increase last year and with hindsight there probably should have been.
      This is not a business for me, this is not my day job - I do it as a hobby. Because of the cost of the drums, consumables and processing there will be increase in price on fresh, however this will be kept to a minimum. Bob and I also believe that members would be pleased with better results, guaranteed freshness & greater variety

      Does freezing affect the grapes?
      Yes but only in a positive way. If you think about it you are getting a cold maceration for free. In the tests I have been doing over the past few years frozen grapes deliver more flavour and give a better extraction than fresh. This is to do with the way the ice crystals are formed, and I'm quite happy to bore you with the details over a curry

      Will you supply Brix & Total acidity measurements?
      Yes and no. The Brix reading does stay consistent after thawing, however this is not the case for total acidity. I am more than happy to provide the Brix measurements if requested.

      Although we are potentially changing the method of delivery, the grapes are still being provided as an ingredient and not a kit, so that the winemaker retains the uniqueness of his recipe.


      Please post your thoughts ...
      Sounds great Brian! Quick question though - where would the grapes be processed? If it's in and around your neck of the woods, i would be more than happy to help (after all - i'm only 0.75 hour drive away down the A1). To me, anything that is going to introduce greater variety in terms of grape types but without compromising quality is all good to me!!!

      Oh and 2 GF's a year - The normal one, plus a spring 'catch up/compare notes' one sounds a great idea. (Any excuse for a meet-up HIC!) Also, this opens up the possibilty of workshops/talks, much like we've done over the last couple of years, but more 'interactive' possibly, as we would be lest time-constrained?

      Also, more events a year means i may well get off my A**e and do stuff - including posting more on here!!!
      "There are 10 types of people who understand Binary; those that do and those that don't.........."

      Comment


      • #4
        Whilst I understand all your points Brian, personally I would prefer the fresh grapes and process on the day. I think that gives something extra to the whole event although acknowledge the issues. I think I would still be up for attending GF (both of them) though. I like Dave H's point that we could come and be involved with the processing in your neck of the woods but isn't that just like moving Graepfest location and being flexible with 1 or more dates?

        On the practicalities, do you have enough freezer space for the potential quantities? (I won't be surprised with a yes)
        Simon
        "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

        Comment


        • #5
          The thinking behind it is two fold


          it would mean we ALL get access to ALL the grape varieties

          we have more time available for talks/testing/blending/tasting (and social time)

          it is not a done deal, but we are looking to everyone getting more out of it, and would welcome everyone's input

          regards
          Bob
          N.G.W.B.J.
          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
          Wine, mead and beer maker

          Comment


          • #6
            OK, I'll try to be devil's Advocate.

            Not all have space for frozen grapes - on top of fermenting kit - and while that may not appear a problem to some (they would have to process the grapes PDQ anyway), it does involve extra costs.

            Grapefest may turn into frapegest without grapes and seeing a batch at least started will always increase interest in the outcome.

            Natural yeasties may be the bees' knees for some.

            It would be a lot easier for the likes of me to collect, as required, from just down the road (relatively speaking).


            All that said, logistically it seems eminently sensible - more grape variety choice, potentially better quality, longer (potential) storage, easier transporting, more flexible date(s) and just needs a really central theme to draw the crowds in - apple scratting? (bring your own?) and pressing could be one suggestion for one year, more demos for newer starters (maybe) or something else?

            Never having attended, I am not, perhaps, best situated to make the above comments, but you did ask!! Tin hat on now.

            RAB

            Comment


            • #7
              Excellent comments keep them coming.

              This is not intended to dilute grapefest, only improve it.
              Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm all about the end up product, and whilst it's nice to see you ALL we're all paying for the grapes to produce the best wine possible.

                If it's only done for one year it'd be nice to try to see the results. If it's not to the liking of everyone next year we can change our minds again.

                Judging by previous events, other talks, presentations etc have been stimulating in themselves.

                Having said all that, I'm easy either way. (Shush you!)
                With Grape flavour comes grape responsibility

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ukric View Post
                  Having said all that, I'm easy either way. (Shush you!)


                  ;o)

                  (On a serious note - hope your ok dude! - the new oven looks cool BTW!!!)
                  "There are 10 types of people who understand Binary; those that do and those that don't.........."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ukric View Post
                    I'm easy either way. (Shush you!)
                    There may be hope for you yet!
                    National Wine Judge NGWBJ

                    Secretary of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Society

                    My friends would think I was a nut, turning water into wine....... Lyrics from Solsbury hill by Peter Gabriel

                    Member of THE newest wine circle in Yorkshire!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm also happy with either, hell I might even live dangerously this year and actually make wine (instead of pyment - Ok, maybe both). I know that the frozen ones work fine, and you get a bit of breathing space as it takes about 3 days for the buggers to thaw out........

                      But I'd still attend as it's an excuse to get away for a weekend
                      Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

                      Some blog ramblings

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd be up for the frozen grapes.

                        If it improves the varieties available then it can't be a bad thing. It'll also mean more people can be subjected to a beer water lecture by me, and I love being the centre of attention.
                        Dutch Gunderson: Who are you and how did you get in here?
                        Frank Drebin: I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.
                        -Police Squad

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by koomber View Post
                          -----snip-----
                          It'll also mean more people can be subjected to a beer water lecture by me, and I love being the centre of attention.
                          No no...... I won't hear of it.......
                          Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

                          Some blog ramblings

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Fresh has the advantages for newbies (I.e. people like me) to see the whole process of crushing, de-stemming then worry about sulphiting etc. There's also the crate lugging/ burning along with that certain sense of everyone mucking in to get the job done...so to me frozen seems to lose something of what the event is about...

                            Having said that, I like the idea of extra varieties and presumably more chance of getting what you want due to availability...

                            But, is grapefest about the grapes or the wine, or both? Fresh has my vote, but I'm happy to go with the majority...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              They're still gonna need de-stemming and crushing afaik, so there's still that bit.

                              Personally, I plan on de-stemming mine by hand this year before pouring them through the crusher if possbile. So I hope they come still needing those bits doing.

                              Just a thought
                              With Grape flavour comes grape responsibility

                              Comment

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