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  • #16
    Originally posted by ukric View Post
    They're still gonna need de-stemming and crushing afaik, so there's still that bit.

    Personally, I plan on de-stemming mine by hand this year before pouring them through the crusher if possbile. So I hope they come still needing those bits doing.

    Just a thought
    No, Brian does that (his machine does an excellent job) before the pulped grapes are poured into the 25litre drums and freezing them down......
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    • #17
      They will arrive destemmed and crushed, (done in that order avoids any crushing of stems) Brian's machine does it in that order, which is better (his kit was more expensive than mine)

      So the plus side of going frozen is:
      more varietals
      better quality (frozen at point of delivery so no deterioration of grapes during storage and travel)
      no clean up of kit (and those who have tried cleaning the crusher/destemmer will tell you what a pain it is)
      more time for talks on wine and beer maing
      more social time
      more time for tastings of attendees wine and session on how to improve it
      more time to devote to a proper wine swap (we always forget it till its too late don't we?)

      minus side is:
      don't get to do the crushing as a team


      I suppose it is down to what we want grapefest to be. Is it the crushing of the grapes as a collective that is the attraction or the exposure to people with experienced palates and knowledge and the tasting and discussion of all wines present that is the key? It is nice when it is both but then if it is a fresh grape event, we miss some of the varietals.

      your thoughts appreciated, keep them coming

      regards
      Bob
      Last edited by lockwood1956; 28-05-2013, 07:34 AM.
      N.G.W.B.J.
      Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
      Wine, mead and beer maker

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      • #18
        don't get to do the crushing as a team

        Although the OP stated one or the other (fresh or frozzed), I don't see that a demonstration set-up on the day to be a bad thing - at least for new starters, who may wish to purchase their own grapes at some point.

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        • #19
          Personally fresh for me, the crushing de stemming is what makes the day IMHO, hard graft and getting stuck in, putting all the mouldy grapes,leaves & stems and anything else we can find into Bob's batch ;D sticky grape juice all over, cutting your fingers on Bob's de stemmer, rewarded with a few ales and plenty of wine, banter & a bowl of chili.

          Grapefest just wouldn't be Grapefest, it would be more of a 'come collect your Winexpert kit' sort of thing.

          Though I will go with the majority, maybe Brian could bring half a dozen fresh box's just for a demo for the newcomers?
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          • #20
            Originally posted by fatbloke View Post
            No, Brian does that (his machine does an excellent job) before the pulped grapes are poured into the 25litre drums and freezing them down......
            Oh well, I'm still not fussed, just a little (extra work) experiment I was planning
            With Grape flavour comes grape responsibility

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            • #21
              I have to say for newcomers, doing a small quantity I would recommend freezing, thawing and straight to press.

              I did this (quite badly it has to be said) last year with some English white grapes and the result was simply stunning. having made this varietal last year I was surprised by the difference the method made. Cleanest fermentation I've ever seen, lovely fruity finish, well balanced and cleared in seconds - well maybe not a quick.
              .....But it was ready to drink the day after I pitched the yeast
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              • #22
                I see what your saying there Brian but by newcomers I think we should mean newcomers to grape winemaking not newcomers to winemaking. I imagine that when people go to grapefest they know most of the ins and outs of kits and stuff and want to see and do something a bit more different....

                I know you said there was a possibility of two GF's if we go frozen, so what about one frozen in March or whenever you was meaning and the fresh one in sept? Then it's two distinct events with their own character and a decent spread of time between the two for those doing the leg work. I.e you and bob afaik.

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                • #23
                  I'll not be doing GrapeFest, so there are those (like 100% of folks) that might say I should keep my opinions to myself. Have to say though that I think you people who give your time, energy, enthusiasm (use bits of machinery, bits of working capital, drive around the country) just to help others and pass on the skills (and applied numptiness) - you are amazing, how bloomin super that you do it.

                  De-stalking is soooo tedious, take a bunch, show how it's done, chuck in a bucket and tread on it... then whip out the frozen 'one I prepared earlier'.
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by SiSandrine View Post
                    On the practicalities, do you have enough freezer space for the potential quantities? (I won't be surprised with a yes)
                    Prepare to be not surprised...

                    I am picking up a new freezer very soon.
                    Last edited by Cellar_Rat; 06-06-2013, 02:46 PM. Reason: really really soon.
                    Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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                    • #25
                      Having been to the last two Grapefests and also having had experience of three different frozen grape varieties from Brian, I personally would prefer to stick with the current format for Grapefest.

                      I bought a new 16 litre press (the same as Goldseal’s) which I feel is reasonably efficient and have not managed to get anywhere near 26-30 bottles from 25 litres of must. From experience I think between 21 and 25 bottles is more realistic from 25 litres.

                      On the positive side, the colour extraction is very good with the cold soak.

                      On the negative side, the colour extraction is so good any Rose you make will have a deep red colour similar to a second run wine and not a lovely pink colour. I have 9 bottles of Grenache Rose that look more like a table wine than Rose.

                      I also had trouble with testing SG, Ph and TA which I think is due to the way the sugars etc separate out when frozen and the difficulty of re-combining them once defrosted.

                      I would certainly welcome more varieties but I would like to know what the cost for 25 litres would be. Last year 25 litres of fresh must was roughly £30. The current price for frozen grapes is considerably more.

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                      • #26
                        Following much wailing, gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands we will trial a frozen only grapefest this year and evaluate following the event.

                        We will also take a small handful of boxes of fresh grapes to use as demonstration of techniques, and video that, this will be one of the "talks" at this years events, where we will process fresh grapes without posh equipment.

                        It is difficult to determine exactly what the essence of grapefest is, is it the processing of the grapes, or is it the mingling and chatting to experienced wine makers and in particular grape wine makers?

                        Please remember that this is not a commercial venture and that myself and the forum make absolutely no money from this!

                        The majority who have contributed to the debate seem to favour the frozen grape route for the reason that there will be more varietals on offer, the quality will be better (for reasons already gone into earlier in the thread) longer cold soak for colour extraction, and it is easier to leave the must till one gets home.

                        We can switch back to fresh grapes if the event is felt to have lost something through this route.

                        Brian will advise avalability and price in due course

                        regards
                        bob
                        N.G.W.B.J.
                        Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                        Wine, mead and beer maker

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                        • #27
                          Sorry to arrive late on this one.

                          My view is that processing the grapes is fundamental to Grapefest, snd that simply picking up a few frozen pails is not too far removed from buying a kit from the local HBS. No offence is intended to Brian. I think what you are doing is great, I just think Grapefest will lose something by going down this route.

                          There are plus sides though - more time for organised talks and demos, and far less mess to clean up. I'll go with the consensus.

                          EDIT: Reading one of Rob's previous posts, I have realised that those who want to make rosés are going to be disappointed (i.e. me).
                          Last edited by goldseal; 02-08-2013, 08:20 AM.
                          Pete the Instructor

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                          • #28
                            Thats the question isn't it....Is Grapefest about the processing of the grapes on the day, or the mingling with experienced winemakers and the talks and demos?

                            I have wrestled with it over and over, and we talked about it at the last two 5 towns meetings.

                            The biggest down side of the fresh grape event for me is the clean-up of the crusher-destemmer as it is a total pain in the bum (you have NO idea till you have tried it) and you lose shards of skin all over it!

                            The biggest plus (for me) of the frozen route is the chance of being offered varietals and them actually turning up! for years we were promised varietals never came, or worse still, we missed them. The frozen route means we get the chance of ALL varietals, and the biggest plus, better quality grapes as they are not left exposed in a warm warehouse for 2 to 3 days before we get them, look how last years grapes were fuzzier than normal, that's because the supplier no longer has the big fridge that David Howgego (now retired) used to have, and so the grapes lay in the warm starting to turn.

                            The biggest thing that making wine from these grapes have to offer over high end kits is the quality of wine that can be produced, and so (for me) it's all about the quality of the stuff going in.

                            I love grapefest and would not like to think it lost it's ethos going this route, we will lose some aspects but gain others, but after much discussion at 5 towns and this thread which has been running since may, the majority are in "go with the majority" mode and there seems to be a slight majority for frozen, so I decided that we would trial the frozen route this year and review afterwards, if we feel it loses something vital, we can always switch back to fresh next year, (although if we do, what we would do about the grapes laying in the warm is an issue, which could only be cured by having grapefest the morning after the grapes arrived.)

                            regards
                            Bob
                            Last edited by lockwood1956; 02-08-2013, 09:47 AM.
                            N.G.W.B.J.
                            Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                            Wine, mead and beer maker

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                            • #29
                              That's fair enough Bob. No harm in trying it. My post wasn't meant as a criticism of anyone or anything, so let's see how it goes
                              Pete the Instructor

                              It looks like Phil Donahue throwing up into a tuba

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by goldseal View Post
                                My post wasn't meant as a criticism of anyone or anything
                                I didn't read it that way at all

                                Was just explaining what the thinking was, and we needed to decide on way or t'other
                                N.G.W.B.J.
                                Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                                Wine, mead and beer maker

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