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  • Tweaking a Cheap Kit

    Hi, All - A newbie here. I was given a cheap 30 bottle kit (Cantina Motecino) and I've picked up from this forum (Great forum, BTW) that making it up 'short' can improve things greatly. I'm wondering what other tweaks might help -- such as adding in tannin, etc. Also, for a 21L kit how 'short' is best? Any advice would be hugely welcome.
    Cheers!

  • #2
    I tweak a lot of cheap kits but this is not one I've had a go at. It is ususally advisable to make it "straight" first. Some are surprisingly good. Also you want to avoid complicating things till your comfortable with the techniques. Then try this link

    Is it a red wine? I don't make them short but for 30 bottles I add a pound of sultanas, a kilo of grape skins, a kilo of sugar and if I want a bit more bite, half a pound of dried elderberries. I keep them a couple of months before bottling and give them a bit of oak during this time. But make sure the wine is properly degassed when fermentation is complete. That can make a lot of difference with kits.
    Cheers,
    Dave.
    If I won the lottery I'd spend half the money on wine, women and song.
    But I'd probably just waste the rest of it!

    Comment


    • #3
      Sultanas?

      Originally posted by SleepyDave View Post
      I tweak a lot of cheap kits but this is not one I've had a go at. It is ususally advisable to make it "straight" first. Some are surprisingly good. Also you want to avoid complicating things till your comfortable with the techniques. Then try this link

      Is it a red wine? I don't make them short but for 30 bottles I add a pound of sultanas, a kilo of grape skins, a kilo of sugar and if I want a bit more bite, half a pound of dried elderberries. I keep them a couple of months before bottling and give them a bit of oak during this time. But make sure the wine is properly degassed when fermentation is complete. That can make a lot of difference with kits.
      Thanks, SleepyDave - Yes, the kit is a red based on Montepulciaon, which I enjoy. I like the oak idea and I think I'll give that a try. It would never have occurred to me to add sultanas. Really? Do you have to do anything to them, or just chuck 'em in and filter 'em out at . . . when, racking? Bottling? Do they up the sugar ante much?

      I'm intrigued.
      Cheers!

      Comment


      • #4
        Sultanas are just dried grapes so they provide a bit more sugar and a bit more grapeyness and maybe a bit more tannin. I usually rinse in hot water to remove any oil and chop coarsly - but it does mean you have to stir daily to avoid a cap forming and drying out. You can put them in a muslin bag but this can be even harder to keep below the surface. I prefer them loose as I think they provide nucleation points to promote degassing. Also they provide a surface for the yeast to grow on. But I like to keep them stirred up - couple or three times a day.

        I add about an ounce of oak chips to a 5 gallon carboy once the wine has cleared. After three or four weeks you can really taste the effect. Beware of leaving them in too long. Taste weekly - such a chore
        Cheers,
        Dave.
        If I won the lottery I'd spend half the money on wine, women and song.
        But I'd probably just waste the rest of it!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks, Dave - I've done a 1-gal. B-Dale Barolo and a CalConn Tinto. Both resting nicely. I think I'm ready to take the plunge with a 5-gal. kit. I definitely will try the sultanas and oak chips. Chips with everything, I say! What about additional tannin? Any thoughts?

          Comment


          • #6
            I always prefer to use dried elderberries for extra tannin - say 200g - but it will take a bit longer to be drinkable.
            Cheers,
            Dave.
            If I won the lottery I'd spend half the money on wine, women and song.
            But I'd probably just waste the rest of it!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SleepyDave View Post
              Sultanas are just dried grapes so they provide a bit more sugar and a bit more grapeyness and maybe a bit more tannin. I usually rinse in hot water to remove any oil and chop coarsly
              This site as been linked before on here...http://wijnmaker.blogspot.co.uk/2007...n-raisins.html I was taking a look the other day and found a writeup on raisins, when I checked the packets in the cupboard I found this.



              When your making a wine and the recipe calls for raisins your adding P/S via the raisins, not a good start for the yeast to do their job.???
              made me think about it.

              Brian

              Comment


              • #8
                Hmmm..... something more to think about.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I often link to Luc's site, we met at Brouwlands open day some time ago. he and Els amd Martina and I

                  he is a great guy, and conducts interesting experiments.

                  regards
                  bob
                  N.G.W.B.J.
                  Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                  Wine, mead and beer maker

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I prefer to use sultanas as they do not impart the sherry flavour that raisins do. I also use the better types in supermarkets that are not coated in oil and do not use sorbate as a preservative

                    5lbs sultanas is equivalent to 3 lbs sugar

                    as with anything you are putting into your wine.....check the label

                    redards
                    Bob
                    N.G.W.B.J.
                    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                    Wine, mead and beer maker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                      ..as with anything you are putting into your wine.....check the label
                      redards
                      Bob
                      After reading his writeup on the use of sorbate it's made me think about what we take for granted. Will have to find a better brand of sultanas in the future.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here is a question, as yet unresolved, that I raised a year ago:
                        •Raisins are dried white grapes. They are dried to produce a dark, sweet fruit. The grapes used are usually Moscatel.
                        •Sultanas are also dried white grapes but from seedless varieties. They are golden in colour and tend to be plumper, sweeter and juicier than other raisins. Also referred to as Golden Raisins in the US.
                        •Currants are dried, dark red, seedless grapes. They are dried to produce a black, tiny shrivelled, flavour-packed the grapes were originally cultivated in the south of Greece, and the name currant comes from the ancient city of 'Corinth'.

                        Why not use currants with red wine?

                        The previous answer was "can't remember why, but I think it makes it taste like sherry". Now this 'taste like sherry' is the traditionalists parry to any thrust that puts them on the wrong foot. "what happens if I use a sonic screwdriver to degass?" - "makes it taste like sherry" is the certain response. I just hope they are right. I love sherry! My currant wine experiments are probably ready to bottle, been in the demijohns a year or so. I'll let you know.

                        But why use white grapes to vinify a red-grape kit?

                        My personal opinion is that in the 60s, when the only books that are allowed to be considered scripture in winemaking were written, the authors were too dim to understand that raisins were white and sultanas were white. But another month or two and I'll let you know how 'sherry' like my stuff has turned out.
                        Now bottling 20DJs of 2013 red and making room to rack 5 carboys of 2014 red to the DJs where they can wait for another winter.
                        Thank goodness for eBay! (local cache of DJs)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, you make a compelling case and I look forward to the results of your trials

                          I cant really think ogf a good reason not to use them, yet as you say, traditional recipes seem to give them a wide berth. (perhaps sorbate used in processing? not sure but will check next time I am near a packet)

                          regards
                          Bob
                          N.G.W.B.J.
                          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                          Wine, mead and beer maker

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ToulouseLePlot View Post
                            But why use white grapes to vinify a red-grape kit?
                            Because they are neutral and dont alter the taste much but do add "vinosity" or "grape flavour"

                            I believe most sultanas in UK supermarkets are made from Thompson seedless, and that's a fairly neutral grape.


                            regards
                            Bob
                            N.G.W.B.J.
                            Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                            Wine, mead and beer maker

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Those whitworths sultanas look like the 'ready to eat' versions to me which have water added back into them to make them softer. This increases the risk of spoilage and hence the need for preservative. Don't buy ready to eat versions. Buy proper dried fruit instead which doesn't use preservative because the drying is the means of preserving...

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