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  • All grain brew steeping sparging efficiency help

    Hello All

    I am a keen all grain brewer and I am told make a good brew.

    However I have had trouble with the efficiency of extraction of the sugars and never seem to do a brew and extract anything like the recipe say with my SG readings and have to top up a little with sugars to hit the target.

    I recently downloaded a recipe calculator from Graham Wheeler and when putting in the recipe I use then if I hit the 75% efficiency target I would be about 7% proof.

    On adjusting the efficiency to my recipe it works out that my efficiency is about 39%. Pretty bad ......

    I mash at about 67C for an hour and sparge at about 85C

    Obviously I am missing something out ........

    I use a Lidil jam maker for my temperature and put the grain in a muslin bag.

    Any ideas?
    Malc

  • #2
    I have found with beer that temperature and timing are everything.

    By that I mean if the recipe says 67 for one hour. You have to start at 67 & end at 67 or within 1° of that.

    I use a insulated stainless tub for mashing in, which I pre-heat with boiling water. I typically get half a degree temperature drop by doing that.

    I also found that the larger the volume of mash water you use obviously the better it holds its temperature. and as long as you are not silly about it, the correct amount of water can be rectified after the boil.

    Are you mashing in the Lidl boiler - if so what are you using as installation? - or are you using the thermostat to keep topping up the heat? if so I think you might find the thermostat is not accurate enough, so the temperature is fluctuating, and because of that it is not staying in the correct range (close enough to 67° C)for the starch/maltose conversion.


    PS I agree with you about Graham Wheeler - his recipes & methods are excellent, I am currently converting some of them to Braumeister.
    Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

    Comment


    • #3
      Many thanks for the reply and noted.

      I have tested the temp on the boiler and it is very accurate however I have decided that since I have a great big bag of grain the temp under the bag where the thermostat is may be fine but the temp inside the bag of grain and above will be wrong.

      So I was going to make a cooler mash tun and use the boiler to heat the water tip into the cooler tun and maintain the heat that way. Then sparge back into the boiler for the boil.

      The cooler tun will I think improve things.

      I plan a brew this weekend so will keep this thread going and report back with carefully monitored feedback.

      Also if anyone is interested I managed to get some ringwood yeast from the brewery in September and used it on my last brew and it was excellent.

      I live in the East Midlands and see that Anglian water do a report on water which I got hold of and our water is hard so should have plenty of calcium in it and PH will be around 5-6 ........ so on that note it should not be the water doing it.

      Any comments?
      Malc

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by malcmackenzie View Post
        The cooler tun will I think improve things.
        I think so - thats the method I was using - can't stress enough how accurate temperature is key.

        Originally posted by malcmackenzie View Post
        I live in the East Midlands and see that Anglian water do a report on water which I got hold of and our water is hard so should have plenty of calcium in it and PH will be around 5-6 ........ so on that note it should not be the water doing it.

        Any comments?
        Same region - its not the water. I have not got into water treatment as I don't think we have a problem. Having said that, good advice seems to be - boil 25l the day before and allow to cool, is said to soften it a little (which is good), precipitate out some of the hardness and also burn off the chlorine. I don't have a water problem so I haven't tried it yet.
        Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok here is what is going on. First you are a bit high to get the fermentable sugars out of your mash I work in Fahrenheit for my mashing as it is easier to find information about the process. You are not that far over but 145 to 150 is preferred. The lower the temperature the more fermentable sugars are released during the final sparge. Using amylase enzyme will also help with your starch to sugar conversion. Make sure your grain is properly cracked and that when you mash in you get every thing wet do a couple stirs during the mash holding your temperature is key. When sparging make sure to keep your liquor flowing through your mash do not just assume that you are washing many times low conversion is a indicator of a stuck sparge that is where the grain bed develops holes that allow the liquior to run past the grain not through the grain. The best way to avoid this problem is when you start your sparge make sure the liquoir covers the grain bed then replace the liquor as you remove the wert at the same pace. get a couple metal pie plates poke some small holes in the bottoms suspend them above your bed start your liquor flow then start your wert flow when you have your liquid amount of wert stop your flow. There are many ways to do this but this is the one that has worked from when beer was started. All other methods lack in extraction efficiency as the saying is why do that I'll just add a few more kernels to the mash to make up the difference.
          http://www.winensuds.com/ Gotta love this hobby

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by malcmackenzie View Post
            The cooler tun will I think improve things.
            I guess by this you mean using a cooler box as a mash tun.

            This does work well, and quite frankly I wouldn't mess about putting a tap in it. Just pull the grain out in the mash bag, tie the top up tight and stand it on a cake tray to drain. sparred with separate batches of hot water - dunk it!
            Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

            Comment


            • #7
              Regarding chlorine I have seen on several occasions that 1 Camden tablet per 10- 5 gallons added will drive out chlorine. Have never used it though as always thought the boil would do the job.

              I like the idea of boiling and cooling the water as then the mash and sparge waters would have chemicals driven off.

              Will employ all these things for my brew at the weekend and report back.

              Originally posted by Cellar_Rat View Post
              I think so - that's the method I was using - can't stress enough how accurate temperature is key.



              Same region - its not the water. I have not got into water treatment as I don't think we have a problem. Having said that, good advice seems to be - boil 25l the day before and allow to cool, is said to soften it a little (which is good), precipitate out some of the hardness and also burn off the chlorine. I don't have a water problem so I haven't tried it yet.
              Malc

              Comment


              • #8
                For the chlorine just draw all the water you plan to use 24 hrs ahead let it sit in a open container the chlorine will dissipate through the surface.
                http://www.winensuds.com/ Gotta love this hobby

                Comment


                • #9
                  sunshine also gets rid on it in about 1 hour if you are in a rush.
                  Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello All

                    Finished my mash last night and I can say I am pleased and learned a lot.

                    I made up my cooler box mash tun and poured in the water at 75C when added the garin temp had dropped a lot so I had to add boiling water to raise teh tempto 67C

                    When the mash was finished after 90- mins the temp had dropped to 64C I sparged in a rush as I had to go out but on testing the final 5 gals of wort worked out at 72% efficient.

                    So I can clearly see that this has worked well for me.

                    I will improve the insulation on the tun and sparge more carefully and head in the right direction next time.

                    Lets hope that this better grain extraction will enhance flavor.

                    Doing the boil this morning and the Ringwood yeast is warming up to pitch tonight or tomorrow.
                    Malc

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hum ? Gonna have to find an idiots guide to beer making.......

                      Don't make beers myself (too much hassle and faffing about IMO), but it's always interesting to read the threads and understand what's going on.......
                      Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

                      Some blog ramblings

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                      • #12
                        I bought several books when I started, but this one made sense. It is now quite grubby - always a good sign.

                        Brew Your Own British Real Ale (Camra)



                        Beer is nice in that you can do one more often, BUT mashing is a bit of a faf. Temeparature is everything.

                        I do a two day brew. Saves time and equipment. You need a boiler (Burco like), a cooler box (or similar insulated job) and a mash bag. Rest of you probably have already.

                        I wanted to do wheat beer - that really is a PITA.
                        Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Many thanks for the tip on the book.

                          He also has a great little free computer program to help with recipes download from the link below.



                          My boiled wort is now cooling waiting to pitch and a starter is on the go from Ringwood yeast that I top cropped from the last brew.
                          Malc

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This will help enhance the flavor some. Yeast is more of the flavor profile though. The additional efficiency will enhance mouth feel aroma and colour. Adjunct sugars will help with flavors as well.
                            http://www.winensuds.com/ Gotta love this hobby

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello All

                              Help required

                              I did another 5 gal brew last night and all went well efficiency etc

                              However I now wake up this morning and realize that I forgot the Irish moss at the 15 min point. So what can I do about it? It is a fairly dark beer 75 EBC according to beer engine.

                              If I reboil then I will spoil the hops would a little pectolase in the ferment help? Or fine on barreling which I have never needed to do before. Or just forget it and fingers crossed?
                              Malc

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