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  • Maggots!

    I seem to have lots of tiny maggots crawling up the inside of my barrel. They are a few millimetres long and white. I suspect they are probably fruit fly maggots as there have been thousands of them this year, but never noticed maggots before. I sulphited the approx. 160 litres of must with 9g sodium metabisulphite in solution , (intending to add RC 212 yeast which I have bubbling away in starter bottles at the moment - Thurs 2nd am) but the must seems to have started anyway. Wondering whether to dose the must with more meta before pitching in my yeast? I think the CO2 and alcohol will kill them so I'm not too worried... should I be??
    Last edited by Richm; 02-10-2014, 10:34 AM.

  • #2
    As a wine judge, who drinks many wines of unknown provenance, this is one of the things that causes me to lose sleep at night.

    I hate maggots. They're disgusting disease infested critters. If it were my wine, I'd bin the lot of it, and then burn the barrel. But since it's yours, I'll only say that sulphite won't kill them any more than it will kill you, but the alcohol and CO2 should indeed do the job. And since wine cannot harbor any known human pathogen, you should be safe there as well.

    But again.... YECCH!
    Steve

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    • #3
      Couldn't find much on the internet about this phenomena, apart from a post on a 2007 forum "Home wine and beer making" from a certain Lockwood 1956 (nice to see you've been a forum botherer for so long!) who said pretty much what I suspected, that apart from the yuck factor, they won't make any difference and the CO2 and alcohol will finish them off. Happy to report that as of today, Friday 3rd Oct, I can't see any live ones.

      Interesting to note that the common theme from American forums was a universal disgust for maggots. I couldn't find any evidence to suggest maggots are disease infested critters, after all if they're good enough for Russell Crowe in Gladiator.... It's more to do with where their parents had been beforehand – in this case fruit, not rotting flesh or doodoo. Still, I'll be keeping it to myself, don't want to put off friends and family.

      This has also brought to light the thought that I probably didn't put enough meta in (the must started fermenting off natural yeast anyway).

      Comment


      • #4
        Is this red or white wine, you are making? I am interested to know where the wine was when you noticed the maggots.

        I think the solution is much easier - they will drown.

        This week I came across a bizarre process for making red wine which included punching down for only two days, and then letting the fruit flies get at it to vinegar it. After which the upper portion of the wine was removed to make vinegar and the wine continued on !!
        Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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        • #5
          Are you using the barrel for fermentation?

          if so how will you punch the cap?

          is it white wine or red wine? You mention rc-212 so I suspect red.

          Barrels should be kept full at all times, topping up as the Angels share is taken via evaporation thus not allowing room for eggs to be laid. I'm not sure I would want to ferment in barrel, preferring instead to ferment in open topped containers for red and transferring to barrel to age. For whites I don't think barrel fermenting will add anything.

          was the barrel stored full before this or empty?

          i note you say there have been thousands of flies this year, this would indicate there has been a spillage somewhere that hasn't been cleaned up and that is why they are there. Several years ago I had a plague of the little gits, and it was a spillage in a corner of my winemaking space that wasn't cleaned up properly. Vessels stored with traces of wine still in them attract these hideous critters from miles around. Leave a wine bottle out overnight with a little wine in it and the top off and see how it attracts them.

          find the area that is attracting them and clean clean clean.

          was the barrel stored empty perchance? ( just guessing here)

          some more answers may provide better help I hope

          regards
          Bob

          ps yes I've been a forum botherer for a good while
          Last edited by lockwood1956; 04-10-2014, 10:29 AM.
          N.G.W.B.J.
          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
          Wine, mead and beer maker

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cellar_Rat View Post
            This week I came across a bizarre process for making red wine which included punching down for only two days, and then letting the fruit flies get at it to vinegar it. After which the upper portion of the wine was removed to make vinegar and the wine continued on !!
            Interesting. That sounds even more disgusting than having maggots show up at the party. I sure wouldn't want vinegar in any part of my barrel - top, bottom, or layers in between.

            Originally posted by Richm View Post
            Interesting to note that the common theme from American forums was a universal disgust for maggots. I couldn't find any evidence to suggest maggots are disease infested critters, after all if they're good enough for Russell Crowe in Gladiator.... It's more to do with where their parents had been beforehand – in this case fruit, not rotting flesh or doodoo.
            I don't think it's only Americans who are disgusted by the thought of maggots in their food or wine. And Gladiator was just a movie. I'm relatively certain Russell Crowe doesn't embrace them in real life, either.
            Steve

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            • #7
              Yes, red wine, montepulciano d'abruzzo. First noticed them rising to the surface with the bubbles in my yeast starter demijohns, but thought they must be debris of some kind. For the fermentation I use a plastic 227 litre rain water barrel (kept empty and dry all year, sterilised before use) with a wide bore tap at the bottom (speeds up the process no end). I transfer to 27 litre plastic carboys after pressing.

              The cap comes up to about 10 inches from the top of the fermenting barrel before punching down, and I noticed the maggots crawling up the inside of the barrel away from the cap. Not many, about one per two or three square inches?? Needless to say they are all dead now. The flies absolutely loved the stalks so I moved them round the side of the house and the flies followed them.

              The grapes were in pretty good condition when delivered, only a few mouldy ones which I weeded out when processing. This is my crushing and destemming process:DSC_0651.jpg.

              Sorry Steve, no slur on American sensibilities intended, couldn't find a tongue in cheek emoticon. It's probably more to do with the fact that there are far more US winemaking forums than UK ones.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well I guess I can speak for all of us - we were thinking this was an oak barrel problem!

                Blimey so much to say..

                How long was the yeast starter, started for before you added it? (the maggots must've got started really quick ?)

                What was the temperature? (A good temp 25-30c would give a vigorous ferment produce a lot of CO2 and eliminate flies - you might have a few bodies, but you wouldn't get maggots)

                How often do you punch down ? ( twice a day would give all the grape skins getting a good soaking)

                Is the water butt covered with a sheet normally? (use retired shower curtains - this would eliminate the CO2 blowing away, and also provide a physical barrier from the flies)

                Were the grapes standing crushed in the butt, not fermenting for a couple of days ?

                PS love the phrase - "forum botherer"
                Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NorthernWiner View Post
                  Interesting. That sounds even more disgusting than having maggots show up at the party. I sure wouldn't want vinegar in any part of my barrel - top, bottom, or layers in between.
                  Seriously, I could not believe it when he told me. Evidently he does it this way every year. I don't even share vessels with vinegar and will not have it in the same place as my wine.

                  I was truly amazed by that story and then this thread showed up ! Have to say I didn't think maggots in wine was possible (at all).

                  every day we learn a little more........
                  Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi rich how are you preparing these yeast starters?

                    i use either grape juice or Apple juice, a little nutrien and a little acid, this way I ensure the starters are exactly how I want them.

                    are you perchance using some of the must? That's the only way I can think the maggots or fly eggs got in there.

                    better to make the yeast starters ahead of the grapes arrival, and if they go dormant pop them into the fridge where they will stay in good condition, when you pop them in the must they are primed and ready to go.

                    hope that helps
                    regards
                    Bob
                    N.G.W.B.J.
                    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                    Wine, mead and beer maker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes I drew off a couple of demijohns of the must (SG 1085), rehydrated two sachets of RC212 and put one in each. They got going pretty quick. The plan was to wait 24 hours while the sodium metabisulphate did its job of killing spoilage organisms and inhibiting the natural yeast, although as I've said before the must sounded and smelled like it had got going already before I pitched in my starters. I dithered until I found some answers regarding killing the maggots or leaving it alone. So in the end the starters went into the main must 48 hours after crushing, along with another 3 rehydrated sachets. The must was 18.5°C to start with, is now 22°C and down to SG 1045 tonight. The fermenting barrel has a lid and I put a towel over it to stop critters getting in any gaps. In the past I have surrounded the barrel with cardboard to insulate it, even put a heater underneath as the outside temp in October gets down to about 10-12°C. I've not bothered this year as I'd quite like the ferment to slow down for purely practical reasons – I probably won't be able to press until next weekend. (Separate issue – does it matter if the SG gets down to 1000 before racking off into carboys? My friend Rachel seemed alarmed that this was too late. I'm not doing a MLF.)

                      My guess is the eggs/maggots were in the grapes already and the large amount of flies was just due to the warm September we've had.

                      Here's a close up of my Acme destemming contraption (patent pending):
                      DSC_0652.jpg
                      The chicken wire wore out after about 22 crates with a hole in the middle and came away from the frame along the edge, due to me rubbing the crushed bunches through. Got the job done, removing 6 crates of stems from 25 crates of grapes. I did look at some expanded sheet metal at a builders merchants, but the holes looked too small.

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                      • #12
                        My guess is the eggs/maggots were in the grapes already
                        I have to agree - did you have them long before making a start ?


                        I did look at some expanded sheet metal at a builders merchants, but the holes looked too small.
                        A clean milk crate in the tub make a great sieve for stems. I clean milk crates in the dishwasher on a hot wash (on wednesdays when SWMBO is shopping)
                        Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cellar_Rat View Post
                          I have to agree - did you have them long before making a start ?



                          A clean milk crate in the tub make a great sieve for stems. I clean milk crates in the dishwasher on a hot wash (on wednesdays when SWMBO is shopping)
                          No, only a few hours. But they come over from Italy on a refrigerated truck, and then delivered locally by ordinary delivery lorry. So who knows what delights they have been exposed to on their way to me.

                          Good idea, do you put the crate under the crusher and in a big bucket, or rake through the fermenting barrel with it? I did that by hand last year, and vowed to build a proper device. Ha Ha! Had to look SWMBO up, I hope Mrs Cellar Rat appreciates the lack of astringency in your efforts.

                          It's worth pointing out to all SWMBOs that my destemming device proves, if ever proof was needed, that all those useless pieces of wood cluttering up the garage would 'come in handy one day'.

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                          • #14
                            In the bucket under the crush and shake occasionally.
                            Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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