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  • Red - bad egg smell

    Hello chums,

    I've just racked 3 carboys of montepulciano and 3 weeks ago 3 of merlot. I used RC212 and put in 10g of Trozonymol per 20L in the first couple of days.

    They have sat on their lees 6 weeks from pitching the yeast - so probably 4 weeks beyond completion of fermentation.

    The bad egg smell on racking is very strong, very, very strong. Both in the older merlot and this monti.

    I am processing normally, that is - I have 2.2g of k-meta & shaken & filings and will leave over winter in the garage in carboys then next winter in demijohns.

    Will the bad egg smell go, or do I need to do something?

    Many thanks
    Now bottling 20DJs of 2013 red and making room to rack 5 carboys of 2014 red to the DJs where they can wait for another winter.
    Thank goodness for eBay! (local cache of DJs)

  • #2
    your wine needs air. Splash rack the smelly ones into a fresh carboy. Don't add any sulfite. after racking check the next day if you still have a strong rotten egg smell you may have to stir with a copper rod. RC 212 is a very good red wine yeast but it is a nutrient hungry yeast. Feeding this yeast at regular intervals with a small stir is important. What your wine smells of is Hydrogen Sulfide it comes from a stressed yeast.
    http://www.winensuds.com/ Gotta love this hobby

    Comment


    • #3
      Agree with RJB.

      If the copper rod dosen't work, there are some instruction around here somewhere from Steve (Northern Winer) for using copper sulphate solution.

      Couple of questions:
      What was the fermentation temp please?
      a. WARM - avg 25 with a 32c max spike
      b. Normal - Room Temp - (20 -25 c)
      c. Cool - garage or shady shed (15 -20c)

      Was this first racking after pressing ?

      Did you sulphite at crush ?

      Open ferment or under airlock ?

      Sorry thats it I have a theory about this you can help with.
      Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

      Comment


      • #4
        I have had this happen before. Based on what you say in your post, almost certainly you have left too long on the lees post fermentation leading to this reduction. Agree with RJB - definitely don't add any more sulphites in at this stage as that will make it worse. By all means try with a good splash racking first. If that doesn't work the post and article embedded within should help you work through the best ways of treating.

        Simon
        "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

        Comment


        • #5
          All good stuff, but I don't think this is to do with " too long on the lees "
          I did my first racking after press (gross less) yesterday and both wines are spanking. I have bottled some and am also drinking.

          I believe that nutrient hungry yeasts need a quick & warm ferment and they do not get into trouble (without the need for nutrients - any kind)
          If you keep them warm they complete ethanol fermentation in the first 6 -10 day (before pressing) coinoculated.
          This first racking is when I add the very first sulphite and I used no DAP at all with RC 212

          What do you think ?
          Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SiSandrine View Post
            I have had this happen before. Based on what you say in your post, almost certainly you have left too long on the lees post fermentation leading to this reduction. Agree with RJB - definitely don't add any more sulphites in at this stage as that will make it worse. By all means try with a good splash racking first. If that doesn't work the post and article embedded within should help you work through the best ways of treating.

            http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/s...hate-additions
            Halitosis is a condition from being on gross lees too long. There is a large difference in aromas between halitosis and what is definitely a hydrogen sulfide rotten egg smell. Hydrogen Sulfide aromas as long as dealt with quickly can be over come and no harm done most time halitosis is fatal to the wine. If not dealt with quickly and properly and completely hydrogen sulfide can also ruin a wine. As the article from the BCWA pointed out in your first posting in the link you gave there are known yeasts that need additions of DAP during fermentation and proper temperatures during fermentation to prevent H2S. I could not open the second link in your original post so I did not get a chance to look at its information as to prevention of H2S.
            Last edited by rjb222; 17-11-2014, 05:13 PM.
            http://www.winensuds.com/ Gotta love this hobby

            Comment


            • #7
              I think these are possibilities and most likely all interrelated. Leaving on the lees too long can cause reduction as the dead yeast rots away - depending on the quantity, access to oxygen, natural sulphite present and the original quality of the ferment. I think leaving on the lees (gross in this case) will amplify H2S problems and the suggestion here was that this had been left without racking after primary ferment. I agree with you, quick, warm ferment is less likely to cause stress. Oxygenation will help prevent this and this is why the lees are stirred daily at first, then monthly in pro wineries when they age "sur-lie". And they never leave on gross lees - they rack off the gunk and the autolysis is from the fine lees which settle out after that.

              Originally posted by Cellar_Rat View Post
              All good stuff, but I don't think this is to do with " too long on the lees "
              I did my first racking after press (gross less) yesterday and both wines are spanking. I have bottled some and am also drinking.

              I believe that nutrient hungry yeasts need a quick & warm ferment and they do not get into trouble (without the need for nutrients - any kind)
              If you keep them warm they complete ethanol fermentation in the first 6 -10 day (before pressing) coinoculated.
              This first racking is when I add the very first sulphite and I used no DAP at all with RC 212

              What do you think ?
              Simon
              "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

              Comment


              • #8
                Other good articles on this.



                Simon
                "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rjb222 View Post
                  Halitosis is a condition from being on gross lees too long. There is a large difference in aromas between halitosis and what is definitely a hydrogen sulfide rotten egg smell.
                  Sorry - saw this after posting. I wasn't familiar with the term 'halitosis' in this respect but agree the differences in smell are there. I also believe that those differences are not clear for everyone and its highly subjective.
                  Simon
                  "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have dyslexia and my choice in the spell checker may be wrong. It is the term used to describe bad breath it is the same word used with humans for some one who has the same condition. The reason I am pointing to the H2S is there is a definite point of smell stating rotten eggs. There was no mention of rubber, garlic etc. H2S is reversible the other is not. ToulouseLePlot states he racked this wine three weeks in that would get away from the gross lees he at that point would only be dealing with fine lees drop out. He also my have had residual sulfur on the grapes which could be a contributing factor. There are many things that can contribute to this condition most are due to not taking care of your wine or not knowing the grapes growing conditions particularly at the end just before harvest or yeast stress due to lack of proper nutrient feeding or temperature. There are known yeast that produce these aromas RC 212 is one of them. The trick is to deal with them early before the become mono-mercaptans. This state is permanent.
                    http://www.winensuds.com/ Gotta love this hobby

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can see your thinking, but is 6 - 7 week too long? IMO I don't think so.

                      It would be good to know how much kadifit was added to the crush - I think that and a stressed yeast would cause SO2.
                      DAP (trono in this case) is now being proved at the moment to be more of a hindrance than a help.
                      Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wow, thanks a lot for very helpful and full advice.

                        I have to confess to 99% insanity, I forgot that I'd posted this, I think I was so chuffed to get through on my tablet on the way to work it possibly eclipsed the reason for getting through on my way to work...

                        So, I posted the same question again, from a tablet on the way to work (very rare the signal lasts). Thank you Brian for pointing it out, but thanks everyone for really useful answers.

                        And thanks for much info......... copper rod? Where do you get copper rods from? Presumably you sterilise it, or would that give it a coating and make it inert?
                        Now bottling 20DJs of 2013 red and making room to rack 5 carboys of 2014 red to the DJs where they can wait for another winter.
                        Thank goodness for eBay! (local cache of DJs)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ToulouseLePlot View Post
                          Wow, thanks a lot for very helpful and full advice.

                          I have to confess to 99% insanity, I forgot that I'd posted this, I think I was so chuffed to get through on my tablet on the way to work it possibly eclipsed the reason for getting through on my way to work...

                          So, I posted the same question again, from a tablet on the way to work (very rare the signal lasts). Thank you Brian for pointing it out, but thanks everyone for really useful answers.

                          And thanks for much info......... copper rod? Where do you get copper rods from? Presumably you sterilise it, or would that give it a coating and make it inert?
                          No just sanitize it and give the wine a good go with it. Many electrical shops have them called grounding rods. They are driven into the ground just on the outside of a building then a bare copper wire from the ground side of the electric panel is run to it and clamped on to the rod. There is a chemical reaction between the rod and the acids causing the rotten egg smell and that neutralizes the aroma. You can also use copper sulfide there are charts on the internet to tell you how much to add. One must be careful when using the chemical method.
                          http://www.winensuds.com/ Gotta love this hobby

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Make sure the earthing rod is 100% copper not just plated - or worse galv steel !

                            Consider 15mm copper pipe - think plumbing supplies. The stuff connecting your radiators together.

                            There is also of course Steves thread for copper sulphate solution ............

                            Be careful, Copper and galv are poisonous if used wrongly.
                            Last edited by Cellar_Rat; 09-12-2014, 09:26 AM.
                            Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

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