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  • Sodium Metabisulphite

    Hello,
    I rarely post, but regularly read, and im stuck. I have a batch of Beaverdale Chablis Blush, completely finished, im wanting to age it (for feb 2016 for a party) on the instructions there is no mention of adding sodium (or potasium) Metabisulphite, just best left for "several months". I also have a Vintners reserve (White Zinfandel) which actually states to add 1 quarter teaspoon metabisulphite to age the wine.
    So the question is, do i only need to add the same 1 quarter teaspoon to the chablis? (my local HBS said 1 teaspoon, but after reading some posts that appears far too much).
    Thanks in advance for helping!

  • #2
    Hi Dogsbelly

    Sodium Metabisulphite is made up of Sodium Bisulfite and Sulpher Dioxide which when dissolved is wine, sulphur dioxide is released. The Sulpher Dioxide inhibits the growth of wild yeasts and bacteria
    I use it in 'Tablet' form if you have it in powder form that is typically used for cleaning and disinfecting, I suspect 1 teaspoon would be far too much.

    If you can get it in tablet form (try Wilkinsons) the recommended use is 1 tablet / per Gallon. I crush the tablet between two spoons and probably end up with less than 1/2 teaspoon full.

    I always use 1 tablet per gallon in my wines as I like to mature them for more than 1 year. If I were you I would crush 1 campden tablet and add it to the Beaverdale kit, hopefully by the time you want to
    drink it, you will have a wine you enjoy.


    Hope this helps

    TonyE

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the reply TonyE, I bought the powder form, simply because the Vintners said add 1/4 teaspoon to age the wine, but the beaverdale doesnt say anything at all, which why i assumed the same? I pretty much knew from what i read here the 1 teaspoon was going to be too much.
      Even the instructions on the Sodium Meta say "for use as directed in a recipe" nothing more which doesnt help.
      So do i use 1/4 for the beaverdale (5 gallon) like the vintners says for its kits? Or more (which i doubt) or less?

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Dogsbelly


        If you only have powder form, PLEASE check the ingredients label first, if the only ingredients are the two I mentioned above it should be o/k to use in wine.
        1/4 level teaspoon should do for 1 gallon / a level teaspoon would be required for 5 gallons
        If the Vintners Wine suggests you add 1/4 teaspoon per gallon which is about the equivalent to 1 campden tablet. I would add the corresponding amount to the Beaverdale kit as well,

        If I was making 5 gallons of wine, I would use 5 campden tablets which is recommended they would crush down to about a level teaspoon.

        Are you using 5 x 1 gallon demi-johns if so, I would definitely use 1/4 teaspoon per gallon, however if you are using a 5 gallon carboy with a narrow neck, and you can fill the carboy to within
        1" of the top you could probably use less Sodium met, it is the sulphur dioxide gas that sits on top of the wine that acts as the inhibitor.


        Hope this has not confused things to much

        Keep us updated

        Rgds - TonyE

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi,

          1/4tsp (in 5 gallons) is about the right amount. Personally I have had issues with getting the sulphite to dissolve properly, requiring excessive stirring and hence reducing the oxygen scavenging benefits, ditto campden tablets. My preferred method is to make up a stock 10% sulphite solution first with powder. Weigh out 10 grams of sodium meta-bisulphite into a measuring jug and make up to 100ml with warm water making sure it is fully dissolved (multiply up as necessary - I make it up a litre at a time 100gms in 1 litre).
          Store this in a PET screwtop bottle. It can be used for sanitising or adding to wine.
          When adding 5ml of this solution to 5 litres/1 imperial gallon wine, this will give you about 50-60ppm of free sulphur dioxide (SO2). Which is a reasonable target when bulk ageing. There are all sorts of factors which affect the exact amount but not worth worrying too much about in a balanced kit wine.
          If you age for a long time and rack a lot of times you will need to add more at a later racking.
          Best of luck.
          Last edited by SiSandrine; 22-06-2015, 08:39 PM.
          Simon
          "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

          Comment


          • #6
            Sodium metabisulfate

            Hi there
            I sympathise with Dogsbelly.
            I'm a newbie, and have started with a vintner kit. On the instructions, as Dogsbelly it is very specific that no more than 1/4 tsp of sulfite should be added to a 5 gallon batch.
            Wanting to know more about the difference between sodium and potassium met, I went on the internet. One site told me there was no difference between the two, and another site told me that you NEVER use sodium met to preserve wine. Also, it said that campden tablets were potassium met.
            So imagine how confused I'm getting now......
            Based on the info regarding never using sodium met. I bought a tub of Youngs campden powder.
            Reading the instruction, it recommends using 1 tsp per 4.5 lts of wine. That would mean 5 tsp per 5gallon batch, not 1/4 tsp.
            Just to totally confuse me, I checked the ingredient of the campden powder, and it's sodium met.
            The more I seem to learn, the less I seem to know.

            Daview

            Comment


            • #7
              That's wine making and happens to us all and part of the fun of it, but yes I too sympathise when trying to get it right.
              Right down to the brass tacks. American sites advise against sodium met because of sodium intake guidance in the US. For winemaking purposes they are interchangeable (though some folk can notice a taste difference and the sodium version is certainly stronger smelling when making up the solution - Cellar Rat is quite an advocate of this). It can be more difficult to get Potassium versions in the UK.
              Youngs campden powder also contains a filler so the amount of metabisulphite you are getting is, I bet, about 1/4 tsp in 5 gallons though I would need to check. I would use it as per instructions.
              Otherwise buy pure Sodium Metabisulphite (or Potassium if you can get it) and make it up and use it as I suggest below.
              Simon
              "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

              Comment


              • #8
                Morning!

                I believe sodium metabisulphite is what gives wine it home made flavour. We all know salt (sodium) is a flavour enhancer. But without discrimination. It will enhance good things and bad things - it is an equal opportunity employer

                One of the major discoveries in my journey through winemaking was potassium metabisulphite. It is harder to procure in small quantities, but the difference is IMO outstanding.

                If you speak to commercial vineyards, they will only use potassium metabisulphite in the wine and use sodium metabisulphite for cleaning.

                Kadifit (potassium metabisulphite trade name) always comes as a powder. All you need is some drug dealers scales which are, needless to say, quite cheap on ebay.

                It is a little tricky to dissolve. I tend to use a tumbler half filled with wine and dissolve 8 g / 50l in that. Equally a 10% solution works very well.

                The subject of sulphite is an enormous one as Simon said. But it is possible to keep it simple - with these additions we can get by without worrying ourselves with the molecular, free & total sulphite levels.
                Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Errmmmm..... right so what i should have said is both kits are 30 Bottle / 5 Gallons. the Sodium Meta is powder form, no other ingredients just says E223 use as directed in recipe.
                  So from what is suggested on this post 1/4 teaspoon per gallon? (1 and a 1/4 for each kit, Vintners says only 1/4 per 5 gallon???)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons as stated below.
                    Simon
                    "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Guys


                      I have been following this post with interest, amateur winemakers are encouraged to use Sodium Metabisilphite which comes in tablet and powder form, easier to use in tablet form i.e. 1 tablet per gallon
                      However there is also Potassium Metabisulphite, which is used by commercial winemakers, to use this stuff properly you need to measure the acidity of the wine, determine the free SO2 in the wine, them using a formula
                      calculate the amount of Potassium Metabislphite to be added. Potassium Metabisulphite is used in MUCH smaller quantities typically 1/4teaspoon per gallon. You need to be careful using this stuff, as it can cause skin irritation and breathing difficulties.

                      The last time I used a kit wine, I did not think to check which type of Metabisulphite was in the kit, I just followed the instructions

                      I know a lot has been discussed on this subject, for the benefit of new winemakers be aware there two typed of Metabisulphite.

                      Does anybody know where I can buy the Accuvin Free SO2 kit in the UK


                      Rgds - TonyE

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Amateur winemakers can use either Sodium or Potassium versions (in the UK). There is no material difference in the strength of either product. Both versions can cause skin irritation/breathing difficulties and you can use them interchangeably but note the points on style discussed earlier in the thread.

                        Agree, following the kit instructions is always a good plan.

                        It is true that PH affect the free SO2 but certainly in a kit wine this would be marginal. If your wine is reasonably well balanced then you will be OK with the measurements described in this thread.

                        Not sure about the Accuvin but about the best for the home winemaker is here: http://www.vigoltd.com/Catalogue/Tes...test-kit-94100 which is a Dr Nilles kit.

                        There was a good discussion on this too in this thread http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/s...chateau-du-roi. With a nice quote from Tim Vandergrift (via Bob).

                        Hope this helps.
                        Last edited by SiSandrine; 28-06-2015, 01:30 PM. Reason: Added link to thread
                        Simon
                        "I can certainly see that you know your wine. Most of the guests who stay here wouldn't know the difference between Bordeaux and Claret." - Basil Fawlty

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi there
                          Interested in the answers to the thread, certainly helping me to understand it all better.
                          Can I ask a question. What is the likelyhood of the wine oxidising if you add no sulfites. If you bottle it, would it all potentially spoil or just the odd bottle.

                          Regards
                          Daview

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There is a very good chance at losing the whole lot. Added to that, you will notice a difference in flavour.
                            You will also notice quite distinct colour loss.
                            When you open a bottle of wine to drink you will need to drink the entire bottle (not necessarily a problem) there is every chance it will not last to a second day.
                            Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TonyE View Post
                              Hi Guys
                              However there is also Potassium Metabisulphite, which is used by commercial winemakers, to use this stuff properly you need to measure the acidity of the wine, determine the free SO2 in the wine, them using a formula calculate the amount of Potassium Metabislphite to be added. Potassium Metabisulphite is used in MUCH smaller quantities typically 1/4teaspoon per gallon. You need to be careful using this stuff, as it can cause skin irritation and breathing difficulties.

                              The last time I used a kit wine, I did not think to check which type of Metabisulphite was in the kit, I just followed the instructions

                              I know a lot has been discussed on this subject, for the benefit of new winemakers be aware there two typed of Metabisulphite.

                              Does anybody know where I can buy the Accuvin Free SO2 kit in the UK


                              Rgds - TonyE
                              You missed out the fact that you should also know the amount of sulphite that is already in the wine. And by that I mean total & free - this puts you into the realms of lab work and some expensive glassware. At this point I would not blame you as a beginner, to be in a full sulphite meltdown and it is easy to pop a tablet in - I know I have been there and read an awful lot about sulphite.

                              PH pen and a set of drug dealers scales will cost you 10 quid off eBay! It is worth it and it isn't hard - just a currently unknown.

                              The formula is easy and I have it in a spreadsheet - if you want it. If it is a kit wine and you are just replacing the sodium metabisulphite - do it weight for weight.

                              Plus the fact, if you're anything like me, you tend to make the same wines, you get to know them and before long you find out the maths comes out (more or less) the same every time.
                              Gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, fat free – you gotta love this red wine diet!

                              Comment

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