Mash tuns

[Cellar_Rat]

Just bought a new insulated mash tun. WOW. Has the devils orifice on the side (a tap) which I have duly ignored. dropped 0.48 c is 90 mins.

My sparge process is a variation on batch sparging.
I drain the porridge, then sparge with water, stir hard, left for 5 mins and then ladle it out through a sieve straight into the boiler. Then repeat (two sparges)

Can anyone see any shortcomings with this method?

[rjb222]

If you recirculate your wort a couple times you will get a better mash out percentage. You will also have less grain debris in you beer which will make for a cleaner flavor in you final beer.

[Cellar_Rat]

If you recirculate your wort a couple times you will get a better mash out percentage. You will also have less grain debris in you beer which will make for a cleaner flavor in you final beer.

I am interested in ' cleaner flavor in you final beer' if their is grain debris in the wort, at what point does it generate the off flavour?

[rjb222]

There will always be a small amount in your wort. But without recirculation there is a large amount. Try taking off a gallon have a look at it then recirculate it and you will see the difference. Grain husk imparts very bitter flavors. use the valve or some way to close off the flow you want you get your wort from the bottom not the top of your grain bed.

[lockwood1956]

Can anyone see any shortcomings with this method?

Well the mash bed acts as a filter, so you lose that by ladelling it out....I fear you may be stuck with the devils tap

[koomber]

One of the principle issues with husks getting to the boiler is that they can leach tannins into the beer. Whilst tannins are good in wine, they aren't so pretty in beers.
I'm not 100% but I'd guess you'd be able to tell if there were tannins in a beer from your experience with wines.
If your beer tastes good and your efficiency is good then I don't see a problem with your technique. Your method sounds very much like 'Brew in the Bag' which is very popular with the Australians.

For what it's worth though, I batch sparge but I only have one boiler that doubles as a lauter tun.
Due to lack of space and boilers I drain from my mashtun into a bucket, then sparge from my boiler with all the washings being collected in the bucket. I then hoik the bucket up to the work top, empty the boiler completely and syphon into the boiler. Then lift the boiler back up to the worktop and continue as normal.

You might see why I was so keen on the pump you use

Anyway,
You would not believe the amount of garbage that remains in the bucket, so if you were concerned you could leave it to settle in a bucket for 5 minutes before transferring to the boiler.

Long story short: You could collect everything in a bucket and allwo to settle before transferring to the boiler, but if you beer tastes good (which is the main thing) then you probably don't need to worry.

[rjb222]

One of the principle issues with husks getting to the boiler is that they can leach tannins into the beer. Whilst tannins are good in wine, they aren't so pretty in beers.
I'm not 100% but I'd guess you'd be able to tell if there were tannins in a beer from your experience with wines.
If your beer tastes good and your efficiency is good then I don't see a problem with your technique. Your method sounds very much like 'Brew in the Bag' which is very popular with the Australians.

For what it's worth though, I batch sparge but I only have one boiler that doubles as a lauter tun.
Due to lack of space and boilers I drain from my mashtun into a bucket, then sparge from my boiler with all the washings being collected in the bucket. I then hoik the bucket up to the work top, empty the boiler completely and syphon into the boiler. Then lift the boiler back up to the worktop and continue as normal.

You might see why I was so keen on the pump you use

Anyway,
You would not believe the amount of garbage that remains in the bucket, so if you were concerned you could leave it to settle in a bucket for 5 minutes before transferring to the boiler.

Long story short: You could collect everything in a bucket and allwo to settle before transferring to the boiler, but if you beer tastes good (which is the main thing) then you probably don't need to worry.

I have to say this is strickly bad advice. The grain bed is the filter without a doubt the beer will improve with a proper grain bed filtering. The pecentage of sugar will also improve with a recirculation of the wort through the bed due to washing out the sugars which mashing is about. I have found over the years that yes you can ferment almost any sugar with or with out the proper steps involved. It is the quality of the final product that suffers. So my question is this why would breweies take these steps that take time and cost money if the did not make a better more saleable product. The answer is they would not. the breweries will have tried to bypass any step to save them cost due to labor or time they do not cut corners beacuse they have found product quality suffers. Sorry Koomber I call em the way I see them.

[Cellar_Rat]

I ... So my question is this why would breweies take these steps that take time and cost money ......

SO there is a off flavour form the malt solid. Good let get out then.

Call me an old skeptic, but I would bet it more to do with efficiency. With my business hat on, if you control the costs (grain) the better the profit.

Which leads me on so something else - related but which will seem bizarre and I have only just realised....... I breed wild boar and I have had bulk quantities of spent beer grains in the past to feed them on. They completely ignored the stuff. We stopped using it. Recently they have had my few spent grains and ate it - proof I am not as efficient!!

To back back on topic. Bob cleverly noticed I batch sparge. I cannot grain bed sparge, I suppose cannot is a bit strong, but as a modern process for a home brewing I find it offensive and time consuming. 20 litres currently takes around 6 hours (elapsed), admittedly with a few good tea breaks but non the less.. 6 hours.

Koomber you idea of settling sounds like a plan - I also have some V.F. Fine mesh bags. Hmmm.... there is an idea hatching. Stand back!

Do the pump - its great!
But ignore this inline pump nonsense - think of the bacteria introduced by sucking to prime it - what a waste of good SO2

[koomber]

6 hours? Thats about as long as it takes me using a mash tun with manifold. Then again, I spend most of the time during the boil cleaning the mash tun! I think a false bottom would be a better method having seen rich use his one. The manifold is tricky to clean up. I spend most of the time during the boil cleaning out the mash tun.

There are some good recipes out there for the spent grains although I've yet to try them myself (I give them to a chap at work who composts them). Apparently they make very good dog biscuits.

I suspect the breweries position is also more todo with cost rather than quality. Also there is a big difference between using your method for a few kilos of grain and doing it for a few tonnes.

Do you find anything wrong with your beer? Have you been able to detect any off flavours? I've been thinking about giving BIAB a go and your method sounds very similar.

[Cellar_Rat]

6 hours? ...........

6 hours elapsed.
30 mins to heat up everything.
30 mins to ***** around generally - finding things that have grown legs -weighing stuff. Making or thawing starter.
90 mash (89 min big tea break)
15 mins sparge.
90 min boil (89 min big tea break #2)
30 mins to chill (beer not me) and count ice cubes
Rest to setup ferment and wash up.

...Do you find anything wrong with your beer? Have you been able to detect any off flavours? I've been thinking about giving BIAB a go and your method sounds very similar.

A few cockups of my part, (like ran out of ingredients) but no off flavours at all. . On the whole V pleased. Much better than even the best kits.

Put one on at the pub as a blind tasting this weekend - everyone liked it - bit cloudy though. But if you saw the road between me a the pub you would understand immed.

[Cellar_Rat]

oops, found another one!
Seems in these PC times I will now have to 'danny around a bit' then !!

[rjb222]

You fellows do what you wish. All i know is the years of experiance I have. which aperantloy means dick. I try to0 promote proper practice and put extra hours here that I could put into my business and put some into my pocket aparently for no good reason. If experiance is worth nothing then why be here bye.By the way I mkake my living as a brewer.i have taken courses and am trained i DO GIVE PROPER ADVICE OR i USED TO.

[lockwood1956]

Robert,

you have offered advice in good faith, and your input on WAH is always welcomed, but it is up to the people receiving the advice if they wish to take it or not. no need to get hot under the collar, no-one is disrespecting you here.

regards
Bob

[lockwood1956]

To back back on topic. Bob cleverly noticed I batch sparge. I cannot grain bed sparge

sure you can!

in goes the water, swirl around...allow to settle.....drain off wort till clear, then carefully pour back on top liquid in mash tun and run wort off through grain bed, this ensures as Robert says max release of sugars, and also filters the wort.

that's how I do it anyhow

regards
Bob

[Rich]

It's also how I'll be doing it this coming Saturday..

Next step up will be to sort out a continuous sparge system in my round mash tun. I'll save that project for after xmas I think.