Tinned Beer help...

[Cellar_Rat]

I don't have time to do an all grain brew but am running really short of beer.

I do however have a wherry kit gathering dust....

Does any one have any thoughts about tweeking it - perhaps use Gervin english ale yeast?

Thoughts gentlemen please?

[lockwood1956]

I think the wherry kits make pretty drinkable stuff on their own.

If I were to tweak it, I would likely boil the must with some extra hops, or perhaps add a few hops toward the end of fermentation?

But I have made and drunk this kit a few times, and like it as is.

[Cellar_Rat]

Yeah - absolutely have to agree - "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

[Duffbeer]

Agree with Bob, it's a good kit as it is, Richard Sharp has taken a few awards with it over the last year.

[Cellar_Rat]

Thanks chaps.

Job done - lets leave it alone.

[rjb222]

I think the wherry kits make pretty drinkable stuff on their own.

If I were to tweak it, I would likely boil the must with some extra hops, or perhaps add a few hops toward the end of fermentation?

But I have made and drunk this kit a few times, and like it as is.

Bob you should never re-boil a pre hopped kit. The reason being is the flavoring hops already added to the kit will turn into bittering hops this will make the the beer unpalatable. I tried this years ago a couple of times the results were the same each time the only way I had any success with adding hopping to a pre hopped kit is to make a small batch of sweet wort then do a hop addition to this taking into account what is already the profile of the kit then add the boiled wort to the kit in the fermenter. Doing this will freshen the canned wort and you can restructure the hopping slightly using the hop you want as a flavoring hop Maximum boiling time on the hops would be 15 min. To do this use some DME and a small amount of teaed grain. One also needs to be careful not to up the starting SG too much when making up your sweet wort.You are correct in not messing with what is not broken though. PS: Dry hopping is the other option.

[koomber]

Bob you should never re-boil a pre hopped kit. The reason being is the flavoring hops already added to the kit will turn into bittering hops this will make the the beer unpalatable. I tried this years ago a couple of times the results were the same each time the only way I had any success with adding hopping to a pre hopped kit is to make a small batch of sweet wort then do a hop addition to this taking into account what is already the profile of the kit then add the boiled wort to the kit in the fermenter. Doing this will freshen the canned wort and you can restructure the hopping slightly using the hop you want as a flavoring hop Maximum boiling time on the hops would be 15 min. To do this use some DME and a small amount of teaed grain. One also needs to be careful not to up the starting SG too much when making up your sweet wort.You are correct in not messing with what is not broken though. PS: Dry hopping is the other option.

Top tip there! Never tried a wherry kit, but their cask ale is pretty tasty so I can't imagine they'd stick their name on something that was wasn't tasty.

Despite being all in all grain I do still loooove kit beer beers. If it's been stored properly there would be no reason to replace the yeast since it will have been made to work with the yeast supplied.

On a yeasty related note, me ans Rich and have been experimenting with taking slants of yeast strains that we've bought (White Labs, and Wyeast liquid yeasts) and have so far returned some very palatable beers.

[Cellar_Rat]

Dry hopping - good one. What about isomerised hops?

[Duffbeer]

What about isomerised hops?

Hop extract will work just fine, just go easy, remember the kit is already hopped, I would go back to the start of the thread... if it ain't broke don't fix it, unless you are into hoppy beers.

[rjb222]

Dry Hopping

Dry hopping is done with pellet or preferably whole hop florets. Pick a hop that has a high ABU. The reason for this is the bittering units will not come into play it is the flavoring properties that you are looking for. The end result will be a grassy note to the beer. If you want a citrus note use one of the American "C' hops like Cascade or Columbus. For a more European flair use Northern Brewer. If you like a little skunky note use Haltereau. Use about 1 oz added to the secondary just pour them into the primary. Have no fear I have never had a beer become infected because of this and I never try to sanitize the hops I dry hop with. Hop Extract is a bittering medium I have never used this so I have no words on how to use it nor what happens or how much to use. Have fun experimentation is what home brewing is about. Over the years I have brewed beer that you could drink and brewed good beer. I did not learn to brew good beer until I had been through much experimentation.

[mcblades]

The only point I would add to the above is not to expect it to finish quickly. The instructions reckon 7 days till bottling/kegging but this is rubbish. I have made this kit a few times and it always takes a minimum of 3 weeks before it's ready for kegging/bottling. Also, it often doesn't drop below 1008-1010 either (though it still tastes good after bottle conditioning).

enjoy

cheers

Mark

[Cellar_Rat]

Yeah good point. This kit really does benefit from a few weeks age. Would you recommend bottle conditioning or keg conditioning and then bottling. I have in the past cheated by adding a wee bit more sugar up front in the primary and then only two pinches of sugar in the bottles.

[mcblades]

I tend towards keg conditioning and then bottling. Rack into a pressure barrel after 3 weeks or so in primary with 25g of sugar. Leave another couple of weeks to clear and prime then add in 20g of sugar dissolved in water and bottle. Leave in the warm for a week then in the cellar for a month (more like 2 weeks if I am honest).

If you like your beer gassy then you may need some priming yeast. I have trouble with both all-grain and kits priming reliably. I used to think it was my sanitizer that was killing the yeast on bottling. Having gone over to steaming my bottles before filling I think it's either:

1. The crown cap isn't completely sealed (although there is always a slight hiss on opening). I use a ferrari capper which seems to do a good job otherwise. Both Coopers PET bottles and swing top bottles seem to give more reliable fizz.

2. The beer is just too clear when bottled so not enough yeast to prime. This may be a function of my impatience. I am trying to addres this by brewing a glut of beer then I should be able to leave some of it long enough to prime properly.

Any advice otherwise gratefully received.


Good luck with yours

Mark

[crusher]

Mark,
What temperature are you fermenting your beer at? Do you start your yeast before pitching?
I try to keep as close to 20c as possible and my normal time table is,
3 to 4 days in primary, (the head has dropped by then) rack to secondary, 5 to 6 days in there and the beer is clear and ready to bottle. 4days to a week at 20c in the bottle and
Perhaps your time scale is causing the conditioning problems ?
I've brewed a few Wherry kits and all have been bottled and ready to drink in less than three weeks although they do improve if left to mature for a couple of weeks, depends how stocks are.

[koomber]

It's unlikely to be a lack of yeast that is causing the problem as I've seen beers that have been lagered at close to 0°C for 6 weeks still have enough yeast in them to give a carbonated beverage. A beer that looks crystal clear to the eye will still have heaps of yeast in it. If you've ever seen a wine that has been put through a filter that looks 'clear' and then looked at the filter pad afterwards you get an idea of how much there can be.

I'd say it's more likely that the problem is the amount of sugar that you are using when priming the bottles.
Assuming it is a 5 gallon kit, 20g of sugar isn't a great deal to generate gas from. I usually go for 80g in a 5 gallon batch.

I'd say if you were going to age it I'd go for a bulk ageing. Personally I go for either a 1-2-3 or a 3-3 approach when making ales (or anything around the 3-6% range).

When dry hoping: 1 week in the primary, 2 weeks in the secondry (with your dry hops added for however long you prefer) and then 3 weeks in the bottle.

When not dry hopping 3 weeks in the primary and 3 weeks in the bottle.

Although the priming yeast aren't doing a great deal, they do need time to clean up after the initial fermentation to generate the gas and this can be accomplished in the 3 weeks, further the yeast will sit and munch on anything left over from the primary fermentation in this time too.