Pectic Enzymes (Trenolin)

[Cellar_Rat]

I was interested to see these used at grapefest, and wondered if they had given any real results?

I only ask because my Monty is drinkable now (!! yes I know) and wonder just what benefit they would/could have been.

[Rich]

I only ask because my Monty is drinkable now (!! yes I know) and wonder just what benefit they would/could have been.

You have some issues to sort Make more and let it age. Unless by drinkable you mean it's finished and stabilised.

The trenolin should help with the colour extraction and break down the grapes to help with the juice extraction on pressing day.

Being an organised sort, I didn't do a side by side test. The colour is good in the merlot and the monte, and they pressed very well! Was it worth the money? I've no idea.

[Cellar_Rat]

My apologies, yes I meant finished, stable and clear. It will improve with age. Make more! are you mad I have 450l of it already!! I could bath in the stuff!!

Seriously, I have looked at trenolin and 'don't get it' for grape wine. Fruit wine yes - to break down the pectin. Any more color extraction would be imperceivable. Any more juice would be impossible.

My red is fermented on skin till about day 6 to 10 (selected by taste) and then pressed to concrete consistency (also by taste).

I wonder if this is a commercial product to speed up the process (of extraction) for the big boys producing ever faster ever cheaper wine?

[bzac]

here is a good explaination of enzymes in winemaking

http://www.wynboer.co.za/recentarticles/0411enzymes.php3

in commercial winemaking the enzymes used are usually targeted to a specific purpose , extract colour and tannin , aid pressing settleing etc.

the pectic enzymes used in fruit winemaking tend to be more broad spectrum ones that are commonly used in the food industry.

for what its worth , I used rapidase ex colour on my reds for the last two years and the resulting depth of colour in my red wines in amazing.
best one for reds I've yet found.

[Cellar_Rat]

Pretty much a commercial product to speed up the parts of the process then.

[bzac]

Pretty much a commercial product to speed up the parts of the process then.

not realy , more to improve the quality of the wine .
I find my reds have more colour, rounder tannins and better aromatics in batches using rapidase ex colour or Lallzyme EX than control batches made without them. these enzymes target the skins and not the seeds so extract more of the skin compounds which counter the negative seed compounds which can be extracted later in the ferment by the rising alcohol levels.

I would say three things have taken my wines to a higher level in chronological order that I learned them , using barrells, mastering So2 and useing enzymes on my red wines.

[Cellar_Rat]

Perhaps I was being overly skeptical my view was to improve the quality of the wine - within a commercial enviroment - quicker = ££'s.

[bzac]

if I had to put my views on it in a nutshell its that there are many additives you can use to build your wine up, give it more tannin , colour body etc. but the correct use of enzymes allows you to draw more of the goodness out of your prime material , the grapes .

This in my book is much prefered to adding things later, and in my opinion prefered to doing extended macerations which draw out bitter seed products by conducting the bulk of the maceration with a higher alcohol level.

enzyme use can also counter the struggles with getting good color (both extract and longer term colour stability) and body from rhone and italian varietals (syrah, sangiovese, montepulciano etc) and should also be apart of your pinot noir bag of tricks . although with pinot I usualy only treat half the batch.

[Cellar_Rat]

See that's the bit Io don't get. I don't have any problem with color extraction.

[NorthernWiner]

This is just my own take.

Like Zac, I also use enzyme preparations (Lallzyme EX made by Lallemand/Lalvin) but try to limit its use to certain situations:

• Grapes grown in hot climates or where yields are not kept in check. Grapes grown under these conditions tend to have problems with washed out color.
• Varietals that are traditionally lighter in color, e.g. Sangiovese, Grenache, Barbera, some Zinfandel. The exception is Pinot Noir. I use about half the recommended dose for Pinot Noir. This is based on the results of a study I read sometime ago that showed increased bitterness in Pinot where larger doses had been used.

I prefer not to use it in premium or cooler climate grapes. I find there usually isn't any reason to. I once used it on some very expensive Northern California Cabernet Sauvignon, only to find it made the resulting wine - for lack of a better word - "gloopy." Too many dissolved solids. Too much too much. In short, I thought the wine showed a lack of nuance and elegance.

[Cellar_Rat]

I think I am coming down on the side of 'if it ain't broke, then don't fix it'

[bzac]

I never thought my wines were broken , got my share of golds and silvers , but they are better now. more structured and they definately age better with less sulfite.

no one is going to suggest that its something you have to try .
but it is worth doing some trials before dismissing their use out of hand.

especialy working with Italian grapes.

In contrast to Steves expireince I have found them very usefull working with Washington grapes.

although I did use it on some Yakima Valley Malbec that I probably wouldn't next time , the colour is so intense that when I dropped my hydrometer flask in the vc tank of malbec and put my hand in to fish it out , I had a purple hand for 3 days from a 10 second exposure!!!

[Cellar_Rat]

I also thought that after crush I might freeze 5% for a week or so, just to add it back later on in the ferment.