Nutrient lessons

[Cellar_Rat]

If you were using a yeast say RC212 which has a high nitrogen requirement. How would you structure your nutrient program (quantities day 1, day 2 etc)

I am trying to understand the effective nitrogen requirement on a slow fermenter as against a quick fermenter?

[robwrx]

RC212 has always created a bit of a sulphurous pong whenever I have used it. I have added 2 tsp/gal at start of ferment and then usually an extra tsp when the smell appears. The smell has always disappeared within 24 hours of adding the extra nutrient.

Unfortunately I've only used RC212 on four occasions so far so my knowledge of it is very limited.

Rob

[Cellar_Rat]

Let me show my hand. I have never user any nutrient with grape wine. Last year I used 212 for the first time - and never used any nutrient (althought I expected to). The pong never came. Yes I understand that is probably the wrong way to do it

I am most interested in 'when' 'cos there seems to be a difference of opinion. Brewland maintain before yeast! Lalvin maintain after 'carpet glue' stage and again at 1/3 fermentable remaining??

[lockwood1956]

If adding nutrient I add at the start and use minavit ultra (Brouwland) never had any issues when using RC-212 and this nutrient.

I always think your nutrient should be as good a quality as you can get, or can afford. No point having a Ferrari and running it on parafin.

regards
Bob

[NorthernWiner]

Lalvin maintain after 'carpet glue' stage and again at 1/3 fermentable remaining??

This is what I do.

[Cellar_Rat]

'running on parrafin'. Agreed.

After some substantial reading - I am coming to the conclusion that nutrient in red wine should be added ONLY if required. There should be enough present naturally. My RC212 proves that last year.

After research, it if seems to be added as a preventative to stuck ferms, and possibly also to assist if you have over sulphited during crushing (which I don't do any how)

I am thinking this through for BDX, BM45 and BM4x4 yeasts - this year.

Which then goes a full circle - do I buy a bag of firmaid, only to watch it go out of date when everything goes OK aaaaaaaaaarrrg!!

[NorthernWiner]

After some substantial reading - I am coming to the conclusion that nutrient in red wine should be added ONLY if required. There should be enough present naturally.

Ah.. but how do you know whether there is enough nutrient present without being able to test for yeast assimilable nitrogen (YAN)? That's the problem most of us face as home winemakers. We can't just send it off to the lab for analysis (well, we can, but it's expensive and not an option for most of us). Personally, I would rather ensure there is enough nutrient present than to triage it after the formation of H2S.

[lockwood1956]

If I am using a nutrient hungry yeast (RC-212, montrachet etc) then I always add at the start, and monitor progress, and add more if I feel the yeasties are running out of steam.


Minavit ultra is fab stuff and i feel its better to have it in when not needed, than the other way around.

its like bentonite and pectolase, they ALWAYS go in nowadays.

regards
bob

[Cellar_Rat]

its like bentonite and pectolase, they ALWAYS go in nowadays.

LOL ...But they don't go in my wine either !!

Where can I get Minavit ultra - I am perhaps going to hedge my bets and put a 'wee dram' in up front.

[lockwood1956]

Where can I get Minavit ultra

Karl used to have it, but if not then Brouwland.

Pectolase is great for extracting colour, and bentonite helps (according to prof Gerry Fowles) prevent sediment after bottling.

regards
bob

[bzac]

Ah.. but how do you know whether there is enough nutrient present without being able to test for yeast assimilable nitrogen (YAN)? That's the problem most of us face as home winemakers. We can't just send it off to the lab for analysis (well, we can, but it's expensive and not an option for most of us). Personally, I would rather ensure there is enough nutrient present than to triage it after the formation of H2S.

I agree , better to use some as there is no downside to using it but there is a huge risk if you don't.

Use a complex or complete nutirent like fermaid or superfood as opposed to pure DAP. fermaid contains in addition to Di Ammonium Phosphate (DAP) has micronutirents , yeast hulls and organic nitrogen which is easier for the yeast to metabolise. Use your hydrometer as a guide , two additions one added at 5 to 10% fermented(usually day 2) and another added at 25 to 35% fermented (day 3 or 4) .

DAP is like giving children a meal of soda pop, candy floss and chocolate , Fermaid is Sunday Dinner .

[lockwood1956]

DAP is like giving children a meal of soda pop, candy floss and chocolate , Fermaid is Sunday Dinner .

Nice analogy

Fermaid not available easily in the UK though, so use something like Tronozymol or minavit, they contain everything the yeasties need.

[Cellar_Rat]

I agree , better to use some as there is no downside to using it but there is a huge risk if you don't.

I do like the analogy - if anyone wants to split some firmaid there is a chap is the states willing to ship.....

On recent chemistry course. I was lead to believe there is a downside, it has been analytically proven to rob the bouquet?

[lockwood1956]

On recent chemistry course. I was lead to believe there is a downside, it has been analytically proven to rob the bouquet?

hmmmmmm

thats all well and good, but wine that smells like rotten eggs is hard to drink

I wonder how one can analytically prove BQ is robbed?

I would sooner have the BQ robbed a teeny bit, (and I'm unconvinced it would be to any great degree) than chance a stalled fermentation, we as home winemakers operate sometimes in less than ideal fermentation conditions, so we need the insurance policy of plenty of nutrient.

I have heard it claimed that pectolase additions have a downside....
I believe this to be tosh too

regards
Bob

[Cellar_Rat]

The problem with this one is indeed proof. Added to that is the fact that Nutrient is better added to earlier. Perhaps the best solution is a small Sunday lunch

I have never used nutrient and never had a problemo - even with 212 which is siad to have a high requirement. (paced about a bit fretting though with that one)