2011 Ferments

[NorthernWiner]

Followed everything to the letter but it does say don't rack until MLF is complete. I think I will struggle to do that given the level of sediment in some of the vessels.

Simon,

I find it helpful to allow the sediment to settle and then rack off of it before pitching the ML culture. The down side to not doing so is that the thick layer of sediment can be conducive to the formation of H2S. If there is any way you can rack now, before malo takes off, I would suggest doing so, as it may prevent problems later.

And the instructions are sound. You don't want to rack once MLF commences as aeration can can cause problems with it, since MLF is an anaerobic process.

[SiSandrine]

Thanks Steve. I will rack the ones with the heavy sediment then - this was my initial instinct, particularly as I had a bad H2S experience previously. The rush to get the MLF culture in was due to the instructions saying that there should be some residual sugar and initial fermentation should still be underway.
Maybe I'll try the vacuum pump as supplied by Karl - if I can get it sorted in time?

[koomber]

How long are you chaps going to leave the sediment for? I was going to rack my 5 gallon this weekend and then top up with the 1 gallon. This will work for both the Merlot and Sangio. Once I've topped up both 5 gallons I was going to rack what is left of the 1 gallons into 1 gallon and use that to top up (okay, I won't end up with a pure varietal, but still should be interesting)

[Rich]

I left mine on the gross lees all day before racking off.

[Bertie]

Fermention temps

I am really interested in the pros and cons of different fermention temps. With a hot ferment i understand you get better colour and fermention is over quicker (?less tannins due to lower skin contact?). Where as cold ferments give a fruity better smelling white is this the same in reds? Can you combine the two so have a hot 30 deg spike and then cool it down for a longer cooler ferment. I am just really interested in the pros and cons of both.

[Cellar_Rat]

How long are you chaps going to leave the sediment for? I was going to rack my 5 gallon this weekend and then top up with the 1 gallon. This will work for both the Merlot and Sangio. Once I've topped up both 5 gallons I was going to rack what is left of the 1 gallons into 1 gallon and use that to top up (okay, I won't end up with a pure varietal, but still should be interesting)

I will give you what I do: After pressing - I will give it a 10 -14 days to settle out and then rack. Once I am sure the MLF is complete (thank you) I will rack again.

[Cellar_Rat]

I am really interested in the pros and cons of different fermention temps. With a hot ferment i understand you get better colour and fermention is over quicker (?less tannins due to lower skin contact?). Where as cold ferments give a fruity better smelling white is this the same in reds? Can you combine the two so have a hot 30 deg spike and then cool it down for a longer cooler ferment. I am just really interested in the pros and cons of both.

Are you thinking, warm start say 25, get it started, raise it to 30 for a couple of days and then what? 20? 15?

The temp does affect the time. I think cooler all the way through < 25 - it was something I was aiming to try this year. Failed!

[Cellar_Rat]

Been wining all day ...

Gili did 300 litres spot on. 2 pressings. Tastes v nice.
Primitivo did 250 litres out of 3 pressing. I said it was like stiring concrete!! It is outstandingly rich thought - almost new world. 55 cases and 250 litres is not a good yield !!

Did my neighbours' white grapes too - pressing looses 30% volume - YIKES.

I am beginning to think it my press !!

[Bertie]

Are you thinking, warm start say 25, get it started, raise it to 30 for a couple of days and then what? 20? 15?

The temp does affect the time. I think cooler all the way through < 25 - it was something I was aiming to try this year. Failed!

I was wondering if keeping a red ferment cool (like you would for whites) would be a good idea. But I was thinking to have a short period of a hot ferment. I will be carrying out mostly whole berry ferment. So the proposed plan is to warm must from cold soak, adjust acid, add a hand full of oak dust, nutrient, yeast starter, wait for signs of fermention, heat to 30 degrees for a day or two, then let cool to around 20 degrees (maybe below). Till dry (or just about), press, leave a day, rack, add MLB, leave for a couple of months, rack/oak/ bottle.

Advice?

[Cellar_Rat]

Can I ask what you are trying to achieve here? You seem to be mixing different techniques. What grapes are you planning to use. Why the cold soke?

[NorthernWiner]

I was wondering if keeping a red ferment cool (like you would for whites) would be a good idea. But I was thinking to have a short period of a hot ferment. I will be carrying out mostly whole berry ferment. So the proposed plan is to warm must from cold soak, adjust acid, add a hand full of oak dust, nutrient, yeast starter, wait for signs of fermention, heat to 30 degrees for a day or two, then let cool to around 20 degrees (maybe below). Till dry (or just about), press, leave a day, rack, add MLB, leave for a couple of months, rack/oak/ bottle.

Advice?

I'm making an assumption you are talking about Pinot Noir (I see you responded to Clayhill's pick-your-own posting).

I've made Pinot several times. What you're proposing has the makings of a good plan. Here's what I've done in the past...

• Crush lightly. If you are intent on doing a whole berry ferment, maybe crush half your grapes and leave the remainder intact.
• Add 25-30 ppm SO2 and cold soak for 3-4 days at 4-10C to help release early color. The SO2 helps bind color at this stage. I would also add the oak dust at this time, as it also acts as a color fixative.
• Allow must temperature to come up to about 15-18C. Add your yeast starter. Don't add nutrient at this point. If you have an electric blanket or heater, you may want to use it at this time to bring the temp up quickly.
• In 24 hours add half of your nutrient. Check the temperature. Your goal at this point should be to get the temperature up to 30-32C. But no higher. Once it reaches this temperature, remove any heat sources and allow the must temperature to come down. If it doesn't come down within 24 hours, you may need to use "ice bombs". What I use is 2 liter soda bottles. Fill several of them with water and freeze them.
• In 24 hours add the remaining half of your nutrient.
• Once the wine ferments down to 1.000 or less, you can press at any time. Personally, I would wait until the cap sinks, as this will give you an additional 2-3 days on the skins.
• Press, and allow the wine to settle for 24-48 hours. Rack, and then add MLB. Do NOT add SO2 or rack again until MLF completes. During this period, you can also gently stir the wine a couple of times a week. The layer of lees on the bottom of your vessel will provide nutrient to the ML bacteria and allow it to finish more quickly.
• Once MLF completes, add 30 ppm SO2 and rack. This is a good time to add your oak adjuncts.
• Sit back and have patience. Your Pinot will not be ready to bottle for 10-12 months.

[Bertie]

Using sangiovese, merlot and tempranillo. All in small quantities though....will get around 5 gallons of finished wine (at 1 gal a box). Main reason for cold soak is to try and improve colour and smell. The oak is to try and reduce green flavours. Cold ferment to try and get a fruity red. I am doing mostly (75%) whole berry as I had to hand destem and I read that whole berry ferments again gives a fruity wine (but less colour, so thats why the cold soak). Basically I want to end up with hopefully a nice fruity deep red oaked wine. But I am new to this so would be pleased to hear if I am mixing techniques which shouldnt be mixed.

[robwrx]

Yikes!
My 2nd run Chianti lite has gone from SG1.078 to 0.996 in just 48 hrs! Quite a good colour and a very pleasing taste already.

[NorthernWiner]

Using sangiovese, merlot and tempranillo.

Ah. Well, then.... never mind.

Are you not getting grapes from Clayhill then?

[Cellar_Rat]

Yikes!
My 2nd run Chianti has gone from SG1.078 to 0.996 in just 48 hrs! Quite a good colour and a very pleasing taste already.

Not unusual. Think of the ammount yeast, that is just agging for some more sugar. SOunds like you got a good one there. It was a pity I didn't have room to do a second on my primitivo - I think that would have been good.