2011 Ferments

[goldseal]

Another thing I have noticed about H2S is the persistence in the nostrils and palette. After a few sniffs I have to go somewhere else to let the last traces of the smell disappear. If I don't do this, I find I can smell it everywhere, even in things with no H2S in them.

[NorthernWiner]

My thoughts...

It's interesting to note that - at least as far as what I am seeing in Pete and Simon's notes - is that the wines fermented using BM4x4 seem to be the most problematic.

Some yeast strains simply have much higher nutrient requirements than others. Perhaps BM4x4 is one such strain. With one yeast I use, Lalvin D254, I've found that if I don't double up on the nutrient or supplement it with a diammonium phosphate (aka DAP) addition, there will almost always be some stinkiness.

Also...

Smell of H2S in Better Bottle and one of plastic DJs (neither of these were racked prior to MLF)

Leaving wine sitting on gross lees for an extended period can ABSOLUTELY cause H2S issues. And if there were problems with H2S during fermentation, leaving it on the lees will only make the problem worse.

As compacted gross lees begin to autolyze (a polite way of saying "rot") in the bottom of the container, H2S is formed as a byproduct. Think of how a compost pile works. Same principle.

Bottom line. After pressing, leave your wine to settle for 24-48 hours and then rack off of the sludge before pitching MLB (regardless of what the package instructions say).

[NorthernWiner]

If you look at the following chart on Lallemand's web site, you'll find that BM4x4 has HIGH nitrogen requirements.

http://www.lallemandwine.us/products/yeast_chart.php

While it also says that H2S production is low, that assumes that the yeast are properly nourished. If not, it doesn't matter how low H2S production is, you are likely to end up with a stressed fermentation.

I would suggest adding DAP in addition to your nutrient the next time you use this yeast.

[robwrx]

I've got a bit of a H2S hum coming from my Trebbiano but only the two DJs that contain the pressed juice. The free run wine smells absolutely fine.

I fermented the free run and the pressed juice separately using Lalvin D47 and ran out of nutrient after using what I did have on the reds, so didn't use any in the whites.

I shall try the stirring with copper rod trick and splash racking to try and cure it. (But not with the length of Beryllium Copper that I pulled from our material store at work!!!)

Also going to have a good sniff of both the Merlot and Sangiovese tonight just to check but I'm pretty confident that I would have picked something up at the last racking. I used BDX on both reds with Tronozymol.

Rob

[NorthernWiner]

I would advise caution with "splash racking" of white wines. You might rid yourself of the rotten egg smell only to replace it with oxidation. Neither is desirable, but H2S is curable. Oxidation is not.

[robwrx]

I would advise caution with "splash racking" of white wines. You might rid yourself of the rotten egg smell only to replace it with oxidation. Neither is desirable, but H2S is curable. Oxidation is not.

Cheers Steve! I shall just try stirring first.

Rob

[Cellar_Rat]

I agree BM4x4 is one such strain - I used it in EVERYTHING this year - really pleased with it. However this does raise more questions in my head.
I used no nutrient - I bought some trono - planned to use it, but forgot to add it (never have done) and thought -well never mind - I will add if required.
Never did.
Still have trono in the fridge unopened.


How do you get gross lees after pressing - does that not stay in the bottom of the fermenter? I sometimes get the odd skin slip through. The only lees are created as the ferment continues. I must be missing something?


Could the H2S be something to do with initial sulphiting?

[SiSandrine]

How do you get gross lees after pressing - does that not stay in the bottom of the fermenter? I sometimes get the odd skin slip through. The only lees are created as the ferment continues. I must be missing something?

Sorry if I confused - it was after initial fermentation and before pitching ML culture.

Could the H2S be something to do with initial sulphiting?

Reading around the subject I don't think this is that likely. I am sure there is a reason for it chemically speaking but I don't know what it is.

[lockwood1956]

How do you get gross lees after pressing - does that not stay in the bottom of the fermenter? I sometimes get the odd skin slip through. The only lees are created as the ferment continues. I must be missing something?

I think you get less gross lees because of the way you process the stuff using the pipe in the must and then taking skins to the press, you are at that point leaving most of the lees behind, i noticed a huge difference in the amount of lees (almost none) doing it this way. I shall do it this way forever more, as in the past quite a bit of the lees came through after pressing.

I have no instances of H2S thus far, but then i dosed up with vitamon ultra (which contains DAP)

regards
Bob

regards
bob

[NorthernWiner]

Brian, you may be just lucky that you haven't had a problem with H2S. Almost everyone I know has experienced it at least once. I've given up completely on certain yeast strains that I've found have a tendency to produce it. In fact, I only really use about 3 or 4 yeasts that I know to be reliable and trouble free.

For everyone else, here is an excellent article on H2S, what causes it, and how to prevent it...

http://www.practicalwinery.com/novdec05/novdec05p26.htm

[Cellar_Rat]

lockwood1956..pipe in the must and then taking skins to the press, you are at that point leaving most of the lees behind

Well spotted Moriarty! This might explain it. I have always been hot on getting the wine off lees and I always rack by pump. Bit splashy ('cos I can't always avoid it) I usually pump rack a few days after pressing too. Perhaps the pump is helping too. Leaving it a bit longer this year for MLF has been a concern I will tell you.

Lees removal is the only reason I would like a conical primary fermenter - perhaps I should bin that idea.

I also wonder if getting it off the lees and the pump get my wines done that little bit sooner. Cilligiologoriollioioooo will be drinking by Xmas - nicely on track. It will be young but clear, balanced - nice drinking.

Brian, you may be just lucky that you haven't had a problem with H2S.

Steve, I like your thinking, but I have trouble with 'luck' for me falls into the same category as 'coincidence'

Nice link - thanks - I feel a lot more reading coming on, around this subject - this is becoming a itch I just have to scratch.

Any thoughts about the initial suphite being connected somehow?

[SiSandrine]

Any thoughts about the initial suphite being connected somehow?

Brian,

This link may be of use. Adding more sulphite than necessary should be avoided. In my case at 50ppm this should have been fine.

http://www.nanaimowinemakers.org/Steps/H2S_Issues.htm

[Cellar_Rat]

I seem to have opened Pandora's proverbial here...

You are right - low levels shouldn't affect it.
However in separate conversations I have learned that such things as
the following can effect it:
• Re-hydration of the yeast
• Temperature at which the yeast is pitched into the juice
• Fermentation temperatures.


This is a v complex subject and I am awaiting more reading.... (yikes)

[goldseal]

Almost half of my wine seems to be affected, with the faithful copper pipe doing nothing.

CuSO4 on order, hopefully the local HBS will have some ascorbic acid

[koomber]

Almost half of my wine seems to be affected, with the faithful copper pipe doing nothing.

CuSO4 on order, hopefully the local HBS will have some ascorbic acid

Flip. Not been on the forum in a while and it looks like my stinky wine was the tip of the proverbial. If anyone needs some copper sulfate I can rattle together some 1% soln.