Grapefest 2012 Ferments

[NorthernWiner]

I wouldn't stop punching down (though it might only be called "stirring" at this stage), but I wouldn't do it any more than once a day. And if you're worried about air contact, you can take a piece of cling film and press it onto the surface of the wine. It will help prevent oxidation until you press.

For what it's worth, I've often left my wine like this for two or three days after the cap sinks. The thought of doing that seems to elicit terror in some, though.

[fatbloke]

Personally I would keep punching down. When fermentation is finished they'll stop rising, and just sort-of hang there (a bit like it looked before fermentation started).

No don't stop punching. Particularly once the carbon dioxide cover is getting thinner

I wouldn't stop punching down (though it might only be called "stirring" at this stage), but I wouldn't do it any more than once a day. And if you're worried about air contact, you can take a piece of cling film and press it onto the surface of the wine. It will help prevent oxidation until you press.

For what it's worth, I've often left my wine like this for two or three days after the cap sinks. The thought of doing that seems to elicit terror in some, though.

Oh, Ok.

I was sort of thinking along "hive" mentality when it comes to making brews with grapes. I just didn't want to screw up my first attempt with fresh grape. After all, it's easy to imagine the look of horror that crept across a few faces when I mentioned that I was going to up the gravity with honey at Grapefest (momentarily of course)

I noticed that it seems to have slowed the bubbling, which as we all know, is a poor sign of ferment progress, but it does suggest to me that it's probably slowing and as last night was a "step feed night" that it might be getting closer to finishing - apart from the fact that I only have a small stainless press, so it's gonna take me a while to complete that part of the process.

Hence if it finishes during this week, I'll have to sort it this coming weekend anyway, as there's a snowballs chance in hell that I'd get time during the week (unless anyone knows the result of tomorrows lottery and is happy to share......)

Mucho mega TVM's

[lockwood1956]

The thought of doing that seems to elicit terror in some, though.

indeed it does


however, this year I intend to conquer that fear!!!!!!

[NorthernWiner]

Excellent, Bob. Just do the cling film thing and don't stir too much (it releases all of that protective CO2), and you should be fine. An extra 24 hours of time where the skins are sitting in, rather than on top of, the wine really seems to give an extra boost of flavor. But be vigilant. A day is fine. Maybe two, tops. Leave it too long, and you may get a whiff of the dreaded acetone aroma.

[Cellar_Rat]

Steve

So what is the timeline on this then typically?
Fermentation runs through probably 7-8 days, to dry. And then you clingfilm the surface for two days (ish) until the skins fall away from the clingfilm.?

[NorthernWiner]

Depends on the grape variety and the quality of the fruit. For Bordeaux varietals in good condition (picked in dry weather with no visible mold or rot), typically something like the following.

3-4 days "cold soak". I add an enzyme product and use food grade dry ice to reduce the temperature of the must to 4-7 C. Must is stirred once a day during this period. I let the must temperature come back up to 16-18 before pitching yeast.

6-8 days warm fermentation. Try to achieve and maintain a heat spike of 30 C for two days, and then allow it fall back to 20 C for the remainder. During this time punch downs are done at 6 hour intervals.

1-2 days extended maceration. Once the cap begins to look "heavy" and no longer bounces back quickly after punch downs, I then cover the surface with cling film and reduce punch downs to twice a day. All this time, I'm tasting and smelling to assess what's going on. If the tannins are a little too "grippy" or there are some aromas I don't like, I'll press it.

So, 10 to 14 days total on the skins. Keep in mind, I'm doing most of this using taste/visual cues rather than "do x when brix is at y" so it may be more or less. Also, if the fruit is in less-than-pristine condition, I would skip the cold soak and extended maceration periods entirely. Cold soaking moldy grapes doesn't net you anything pleasant in the flavor department.

[SiSandrine]

Quick couple of questions on this Steve as I am turning into a fan of the cold soak (I tried it last year and this and seems to work for me). Do you sulphite the must at the start of cold soak? If so how much and do you worry about the impact on the MLF? Do you add the MLF culture at a later stage i.e. just before primary fermentation is complete or right at the start o maybe no addition of culture at all?

[NorthernWiner]

Simon,

If you're going to cold soak, add about 40-50 ppm (mg/L) of sulphite. It's just a bit added insurance against nasties. Almost all of that amount will blow off during fermentation and won't inhibit MLF. Adding sulphite brings one more benefit: it will slow down your fermentation a bit.

Regarding MLF, if I'm working with a must that has low pH/high acid or high sugar, I will sometimes add the ML culture on the second day of primary fermentation. It's much easier for ML bacteria to do their thing in a low alcohol environment. But otherwise I add it after pressing and settling. Some people add it in the barrel, but I prefer to do it in carboys where I can physically see the tiny bubbles and gauge when it's complete. Once it's finished, I rack clean wine into the barrel and sulphite to 25-45 ppm before aging.

[Cellar_Rat]

Do you test your sulphite levels? I have up until now relied on accurate additions, at particular points.

[SiSandrine]

Simon,

If you're going to cold soak, add about 40-50 ppm (mg/L) of sulphite. It's just a bit added insurance against nasties. Almost all of that amount will blow off during fermentation and won't inhibit MLF. Adding sulphite brings one more benefit: it will slow down your fermentation a bit.

Regarding MLF, if I'm working with a must that has low pH/high acid or high sugar, I will sometimes add the ML culture on the second day of primary fermentation. It's much easier for ML bacteria to do their thing in a low alcohol environment. But otherwise I add it after pressing and settling. Some people add it in the barrel, but I prefer to do it in carboys where I can physically see the tiny bubbles and gauge when it's complete. Once it's finished, I rack clean wine into the barrel and sulphite to 25-45 ppm before aging.

Steve - thanks. Thats pretty comforting. I added c50ppm when I received the grapes, along with the ice bombs. I added the MLF culture last night after pressing and racking off the excess press sediment. Into my fermentation shed at about 20 celsius in carboys. Things seem to be OK this morning.

[Cellar_Rat]

One of the things I have noticed about active MLF, if you are racking off or have it in an open topped container you can see a pearl-essence (I'm not sure that is how you spell it) about it. I could only describe it as a subtle stripey shiny effect in the wine, when you stir it.

[NorthernWiner]

Do you test your sulphite levels? I have up until now relied on accurate additions, at particular points.

I too rely mostly on accurate additions. I have an A/O rig, but the chemicals are kind of expensive and expire quickly, so the only time I test SO2 is right before bottling.

[robwrx]

The skins had well and truly sunk on my second runs, Tempranillo SG.994 Monte SG.995 so I racked and pressed and put them under airlock.

[fatbloke]

Ok, so before I get neurotic and panicky about these damn ferments, I'd like to throw another "numpty" question for some guidance.......

Before I proceed and start "decorating the kitchen a delicate shade of inky grape purple", I've just taken gravity readings.

The Tempranillo (10 litre bucket) is at 1.002, the Tempranillo (27 litre bucket) is at 1.008, the Merlot (27 litre bucket) is at 1.012 and the mixed Merlot/Tempranillo (27 litre bucket) is at 1.010. The bubbling seems to have pretty much ceased and given that I've added something in the region of 750g to 1kg of honey per box (off the top of my head I can't remember without checking through my postings and blog), I'm not surprised at this.

But, the skins are still floating and given that all of the buckets (irrespective of size) have about 3 to 4 inches of airspace, I'm thinking that I could end up with oxidation before the damn skins sink.

So is it sensible to think about pressing this weekend (which will take a while, as it's gonna be a rather "Heath Robinson" affair with the kit I have available), or do you think it'd be better to try Mr Krolls suggestion with the cling film ?

I've got to check my supplies anyway i.e. campden tablets, citric acid and pressing/straining bags, then hit the HBS today.

Additionally, the visual appearance of the musts is that the pure Tempranillo ones are slightly more viscous looking, whereas the Merlot and Merlot/Tempranillo mix is looking rather more viscous/oily in consistency.

Of course, I appreciate that I can't judge my position in the same way as the rest of the Grapefest troops, given that my batches are pyments, but I still wouldn't like to get any oxidation (and end up having to follow Pete's port making/faking ideas - just yet anyway).

So do you think it's pressing time, or waiting and punching down time ?

Any suggestions appreciated........

[NorthernWiner]

The Tempranillo (10 litre bucket) is at 1.002, the Tempranillo (27 litre bucket) is at 1.008, the Merlot (27 litre bucket) is at 1.012 and the mixed Merlot/Tempranillo (27 litre bucket) is at 1.010. The bubbling seems to have pretty much ceased and given that I've added something in the region of 750g to 1kg of honey per box (off the top of my head I can't remember without checking through my postings and blog), I'm not surprised at this.

[...]

So do you think it's pressing time, or waiting and punching down time ?

Any suggestions appreciated........

Since your gravity is still on the positive side and the skins are floating, then there is still carbon dioxide being produced (CO2 is what buoys the cap of skins). It's just not as noticeable as it once was. I wouldn't worry too much about oxidation at this point. Regarding headspace, at this stage it doesn't matter whether it's 3-4 inches, or 3-4 feet. As the carbon dioxide is created, it sits above the surface of the wine (because it's heavier than air) and is preventing oxygen from coming in direct contact. Short answer: if the skins are floating, your wine is protected.

Even as the skins begin to lose buoyancy, there is still an abundance of CO2 dissolved within the liquid that is released slowly after fermentation ceases. However, this is where the cling film comes in. You don't want that small amount of CO2 to dissipate, and the cling film helps keep it from doing so - while at the same time protecting it from the oxygen above.

Having said that, pressing is more often a matter of doing it when you have the available time. If we were all making wine as a profession, we could afford to sit and wait for that perfect moment. As it is, life and jobs get in the way, and convenience trumps everything else.