Grapefest 2012 Ferments

[fatbloke]

Since your gravity is still on the positive side and the skins are floating, then there is still carbon dioxide being produced (CO2 is what buoys the cap of skins). It's just not as noticeable as it once was. I wouldn't worry too much about oxidation at this point. Regarding headspace, at this stage it doesn't matter whether it's 3-4 inches, or 3-4 feet. As the carbon dioxide is created, it sits above the surface of the wine (because it's heavier than air) and is preventing oxygen from coming in direct contact. Short answer: if the skins are floating, your wine is protected.

Even as the skins begin to lose buoyancy, there is still an abundance of CO2 dissolved within the liquid that is released slowly after fermentation ceases. However, this is where the cling film comes in. You don't want that small amount of CO2 to dissipate, and the cling film helps keep it from doing so - while at the same time protecting it from the oxygen above.

Having said that, pressing is more often a matter of doing it when you have the available time. If we were all making wine as a profession, we could afford to sit and wait for that perfect moment. As it is, life and jobs get in the way, and convenience trumps everything else.

I'll just have to see how I get on with the time then Steve. I might even just press the single box/10 litre bucket one too see how long it takes with the piddling little press I have available (stocked up on straining bags etc, so I can probably wring the first part of the juice out, then just press the remaining "lump").

It's a bit of a bugger really, as I hoped to be able to use your "leave it till the skins sink" method for max flavour/colour etc extraction....

Never mind eh! there's always next year and better planning

[fatbloke]

Ha ha! On a roll with the "numpty" questions......

The MLF thing. Grapes are tartaric fruit, so where would malic acid that might need MLF treatment come from ? Would I need to think about this, given that my pyment is more likely stuffed full of gluconic acid from the honey and it's ferment ?

Or have I understood MLF wrongly, needing to read up on it and what it actually does ?

[NorthernWiner]

The MLF thing. Grapes are tartaric fruit, so where would malic acid that might need MLF treatment come from ? Would I need to think about this, given that my pyment is more likely stuffed full of gluconic acid from the honey and it's ferment ?

Or have I understood MLF wrongly, needing to read up on it and what it actually does ?

No, I think you understand MLF just fine. It's the makeup of grapes that you may be a little cloudy on. The acid found in grapes is composed primarily of tartaric (50% of the total) followed by malic (up to 40%), and trace amounts of citric, succinic, and others.

[fatbloke]

No, I think you understand MLF just fine. It's the makeup of grapes that you may be a little cloudy on. The acid found in grapes is composed primarily of tartaric (50% of the total) followed by malic (up to 40%), and trace amounts of citric, succinic, and others.

Ah, so I was just being really, really thick and now it would make sense to read up about it, as it may transpire that just because I'm making fresh grape pyment instead of wine, I might still need to get some of the MLF what is it ? culture ? bacteria of some sort ?

Whatever. I'll look it up and read up on it anyway to decide whether I need it or not.......

TVM for the clarification Steve...

[lockwood1956]

Okay........
12 boxes of Tempranillo and 12 boxes of Sangiovese


Temps have been quite low.

I was determined to wait till the cap sank this year, and this morning (after 19 days) the cap has only risen a teeny tiny bit, but is almost level and SG is almost at 0.990 so will press later today (very lightly) and set off a second run (all skins combined) on a couple of cheapo kits that have been laying around here for months to make up a 10 gallon 2nd run. I removed some skins earlier in the week and started a dry red and a port style using 4.5 litres elderberry juice from germany, the juice had an SG of 1.050 so I suspect there had been sugar additions, but started both batches at 1.090 on Gervin GV24 (port) and Gervin No 3 (dry red) and will run one batch to dry and sugar feed the port.(both are heavily oaked and have tancor Grand Cru added at start of ferment)

The colour is almost black on the tempranillo and the sangiovese is looking quite red too, so colour extraction wont be an issue, but I'm finally pleased that I plucked up the courage to just leave all well alone, and have been happy to experiment with this extended time due to low temps, we shall see how this turns out. (fingers crossed)


happy days!

[lockwood1956]

and now it would make sense to read up about it, as it may transpire that just because I'm making fresh grape pyment instead of wine, I might still need to get some of the MLF what is it ? culture ? bacteria of some sort ?.

you might find this thread interesting John

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?4350-Big-league-stuff&highlight=big+league

also be careful with acid additions, I would not use Citric additions as MLF can munch on it and cause issues ....according to Hente Sweigers anyhow

[NorthernWiner]

also be careful with acid additions, I would not use Citric additions as MLF can munch on it and cause issues ....according to Hente Sweigers anyhow

That's a good point, Bob. Citric acid is converted to acetic acid (aka vinegar) by malo-lactic bugs.

[fatbloke]

Cheers both I'll check that this weekend.

I'm gonna press this weekend, come help or high water. Luckily, it would appear that the honey additions have also helped prevent any oxidation, but the damn skins still haven't sunk so......

I don't use citric as a rule, other than for making up CJJ'S home brew sanitiser. If I add acids, I find that the mix suggested in Ashton & Duncans "Making Meads" is much preferred i.e. 2 parts malic 1 part tartaric. So if I do, it'll be that mix......

[fatbloke]

Well, whoever thought this making wine from grapes lark was fun, I'd like to meet them, just so I can give 'em a good smack in the gob!

I've managed to get all the pure temp done and have stopped for 5 before I start the bleedin' Merlot.

There must be an easier way.........

Oh, and I suspect MLF is out the window. I went into auto-idiot mode and sulphited the lot!

As for the idea of second runs etc......not all the time my ar5e points downwards !

[Cellar_Rat]

MLF might struggle with the suphite but second runs could be OK.

[fatbloke]

MLF might struggle with the suphite but second runs could be OK.

Well, I'm not digging the damn skins and other debris out the bin now Brian.......

Maybe I'll try once the shiraz is finished, but it took 2 days to defrost, and I just sulphited and hit it with rohapect and left it in the can. Once I'd cleaned up from todays pressing, I poured it into a fermenter, acne guessing that 25 litres of pulp was about 4 boxes, I've added 2kg of honey and its gonna sit till tomorrow and pitch the yeast then. I reckon the honey crystals should have dissolved by then so I can take a reading, before bunging the yeast in. Plus the sulphite should have dissipated.

Your frozen grape seems excellent Brian. I couldn't see much, if any stalk residue from the de-stem and crush.

[Cellar_Rat]

Will you be starting the yeast before adding it ?
Just thinking about the additional honey will make for a very sweet must combined with the additional sulphite.

[fatbloke]

Will you be starting the yeast before adding it ?
Just thinking about the additional honey will make for a very sweet must combined with the additional sulphite.

Very sweet ? Yes, after a good stir, it measured a respectable 1.122, but making a starter, no, dry sprinkle like with the other Grapefest batches.....

[robwrx]

Racked and sulphited both Roses. Very little Co2 in them has meant both were very clear prior to racking. The Tempranillo Rose tastes quite well balanced but I forgot to add the acid to the Montepulciano Rose, consequently, with a TA of 4.8g/l it tastes a bit flat.

2nd runs to do next!

[robwrx]

Hmmmm! The Merlot ferment appears to be stuck or I've reached alcohol tolerance.

At pressing time (4 weeks ago) the SG was SG1.001. I put the free run into a 5 gal carboy which I added Malocid to and the pressed juice went into a DJ which I didn't add MLB to. Both appeared to continue a slow ferment, small bubbles rising plus airlock activity until the MLF took off in the carboy.

This morning I checked the DJ and there were no signs of bubbles so I checked the SG, 1.001. Exactly were it was 4 weeks ago. I then checked the carboy and that too is at SG1.001.

Starting SG1.098, finishing SG1.001, ABV 13.2%?

The yeast was Vintners Harvest R56 which can go to 13.5%. So the little bubbles rising in the DJ and the airlock activity was not fermentation but the wine degassing itself?

I like my wines dry and have always finished under SG1.000 but I guess I have to call this one done?