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  • It pays to experiment a little

    So as I've mentioned before, I tried a basic mead recipe that my mother found in a book called "The Gales Honey Book" (well thats what she's written on the recipe).

    When I made the first batch from it, I just blindly followed the recipe, the only variation being that I used "High Alcohol/Dessert Wine" yeast - a youngs product I think.

    It tasted the best of my efforts immediately post fermentation at the time.

    Ok thinks me, so I'll try the same recipe but using different yeast, as apparently, it's considered better to try small modifications to vary flavour etc rather than the big sweeping changes that I probably would have tried without advice.

    So, with that in mind, I made a 3 gallon batch, which was split into 3 separate demijohns (1 gallon) and just pitched 3 different yeasts.

    I've just racked it off (prompted by someone elses comments about not leaving the mix on the yeast for too long, otherwise "off" flavours can result - sorry to the someone, I can't remember who posted that wisdom!).

    The results? To me, they are rather surprising/incredible.

    The mix made with Lalvin K1V-1116 yeast (on the packet it says "Montpelier" I think, also I've seen this described as a "general purpose" yeast), well it has an "alcoholly" (read that as "medicinal"/mouthwash) sort of flavour, which having read this in the "Compleat Meadmaker" by Ken Schramm, isn't a surprise. With not much residual sugar evident - also not much residual honey flavour.

    In the race, I'd say it came 3rd. Not too bad, but I'm thinking it'll need a good 12 months ageing (in bulk) to mellow it some.

    Next, the mix that was fermented using Lalvin EC-1118 yeast (which I understand is a "champagne" yeast). It still retained a fair amount of the "alcoholly" taste, but given what I've read, isn't surprising as it's apparently quite resistant, though for reasons I don't quite follow, retained more of the residual honey flavour and seemed more palatable than the K1V-1116 mix. I shall probably still give this a good 12 months ageing - again, in bulk.

    2nd in the race.

    The champ, which when I think of what I read about it seemed to me, rather astounding, was the mix fermented with the Lalvin 71B-1122 Noveau/Narbonne. Not so "alcoholly", though that might be because it doesn't ferment out quite as much of the sugar element. It also had quite a distinct residual honey flavour. To the point that while I will age it, I could have quite happily drunk the whole lot straight away. Much more like some of the "commercial" type meads I've tasted.

    I didn't (for reasons that I don't understand or remember) think that this one would "do much". How wrong I was.

    My next batch of "straight" mead will be made with this and it means (too me) that I can concentrate on doing things properly i.e. measuring starting and finishing OG. Proper calculation of %ABV etc etc.

    I mean, hell I can then carry on experimenting with other yeasts, different honeys etc etc, but I now have a "bench mark" that I'm happy with.

    regards

    fatbloke
    Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

    Some blog ramblings

  • #2
    FB - I think that this yeast Lalvin 71B-1122 is fast becoming every-ones favourite. Mine also. I have also read that the ICVID-47 is also great for Mead - just trying that now and I also like the liquid Wyeast sweet mead yeast. That's the way we get to know with experimenting and all the terrific help on this forum. Cheers DAW

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    • #3
      Originally posted by StockeyDAW View Post
      FB - I think that this yeast Lalvin 71B-1122 is fast becoming every-ones favourite. Mine also. I have also read that the ICVID-47 is also great for Mead - just trying that now and I also like the liquid Wyeast sweet mead yeast. That's the way we get to know with experimenting and all the terrific help on this forum. Cheers DAW
      I've yet to find anywhere that actually sells the Wyeast liquid yeasts over here (UK), though I've seen it for sale at Homebrew heaven, unfortunately as they're in Washington State, I'm not sure as to the cost effectiveness of ordering some (they had it for $6.50 when I looked).

      By "ICVID-47", do you mean like the Lalvin D-47 ? Cos I've ordered some of that as well, and am just waiting for it to arrive before I think about another batch.

      It's weird really, I was thinking about this today. Grape wines aren't really expected to taste of grapes very much (they might have once, but these days.........).

      Whereas I'm thinking along the lines that "country" wines i.e. fruit, mead, etc etc are supposed to have more than a passing resemblance to their parent flavouring.

      Maybe that's why I've been a little disappointed with my brewing effort so far, because they seem to have so much of the original flavour fermented out of them.

      Hence my relative joy to find that so far, the Lalvin 71B-1122 Narbonne did (so far) the best job of having enough (apparently) alcohol, but with enough residual sugar for it to actually taste of some sweetness (to an unknowledgable idiot like me) plus the honey aroma and at least "some" honey taste.

      Weird, but as you say, it's all about learning new stuff, in very unfamiliar territory.

      regards

      fatbloke
      Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

      Some blog ramblings

      Comment


      • #4
        www.hopandgrape.co.uk

        sell liquid yeasts

        ring them and speak to john or patsy

        please be sure to tell them that bob from winesathome.co.uk recommended you contact them

        John is my go to guy when i want difficult to find stuff, hes a nice guy

        regards
        bob
        N.G.W.B.J.
        Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
        Wine, mead and beer maker

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        • #5
          By "ICVID-47", do you mean like the Lalvin D-47 ? Cos I've ordered some of that as well, and am just waiting for it to arrive before I think about another batch.

          Yes FB, I should have said Lavlin. Not quite as alcohol tolerant as the 1122 but still at 15 % and that is acceptable. 1122 is 18 % as is the 1118. My feeling is that the 1118 is not what should be used for mead to quick fermentation and mainly for white and I feel will zap all the flavour from the fruit and honey? Also it seems that the boiling of the honey is not a good idea if we want to save all the flavour charistics of the honey that we are using? I find that not boiling and trying to keep the temperature in the pasteurization range 175 degrees F seems to do that for me. Cheers DAW

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          • #6
            The Lalvin website claims that 71B-1122 is good only to 14%, But in your wexperience Daw have you gotten it higher?.....I have managed to get it to 17% before.

            hope this helps
            regards
            Bob
            N.G.W.B.J.
            Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
            Wine, mead and beer maker

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            • #7
              Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
              The Lalvin website claims that 71B-1122 is good only to 14%, But in your wexperience Daw have you gotten it higher?.....I have managed to get it to 17% before.

              hope this helps
              regards
              Bob
              My information comes from the book Techniques in Home Winemaking by Daniel Pambianchi and the Lalvin yeast table on page 127. I have not personally measured the %age obtained from it in my batches - I really go along with Daniel Pambianchi writings. I am sure that his printing in the book indicates that from his experience? I guess to find out for sure we will have to try it ourselves? Then again Lalvin must also check their printings and you would think their information would be correct? Don't know? DAW

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              • #8
                71B has gone up to 18% for me. Rare, but it did.... a couple of times.
                Virtual Wine Circle & Competition Co-Founder
                Twitter: VirtualWineO
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                • #9
                  I have gone past 16% with it. I don't see why it wouldn't get 18%. I would prefer 11 or 12% though, in a fruity dry wine. 18% might be OK with a sweeter wine.

                  REBEL MODERATOR




                  ...lay down the boogie and play that funky music 'til ya die...'til ya die !"

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                  • #10
                    Here is the manufacturers chart



                    they claim 14% but that will be a guaranteed figure, it will of course given the right fermenting conditions go higher

                    hope this helps
                    regards
                    bob
                    N.G.W.B.J.
                    Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                    Wine, mead and beer maker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hum? well so far, with the mead, it's not really been a huge %fest, more about producing something that tasted how I think it should i.e. in my dreams I mean with a medium sweetness, some honey flavour but still with a bit of a kick. In other words, a simple, straight forward recipe thats not gonna take a year plus to age - something a bit quicker.

                      So the 12 to 14 % mark would be fine at the moment. As I get more experience/knowledge then it might be more about getting the same taste but with a higher % abv.

                      And also as I mentioned earlier, the 1118 still had more aroma and sweetness than the 1116, which did seem to have removed pretty much all of the honey flavour and sweetness.

                      I'm gonna make a few other batches when some of the stuff I've ordered turns up (some red star yeasts for instance and if the "hopandgrape" website speeds up a bit I'll look to see if they have the liquid yeast recommended for mead - otherwise I'd have to explore getting some from the states).

                      regards

                      fatbloke
                      Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

                      Some blog ramblings

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fatbloke View Post
                        And also as I mentioned earlier, the 1118 still had more aroma and sweetness than the 1116, which did seem to have removed pretty much all of the honey flavour and sweetness.
                        that will likely change over time, i think you will find that the EC 1118 is more likely to blow off boquet than the K1V -1116, it will just take more time to be apparent, and it would seem that most meads take a looooooong time to become good (5 years plus sometimes)
                        N.G.W.B.J.
                        Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                        Wine, mead and beer maker

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fatbloke View Post
                          I'm gonna make a few other batches when some of the stuff I've ordered turns up (some red star yeasts for instance and if the "hopandgrape" website speeds up a bit I'll look to see if they have the liquid yeast recommended for mead - otherwise I'd have to explore getting some from the states).
                          If you are going to order stuff from the States the Dave at St Louis wine and beer is the man...I have purchased from him before
                          Count on us at Steampunk Brew Works in Town and Country, MO for top notch craft beer and for the highest quality of supplies for home beer brewing and winemaking. Contact us today.


                          tell him I sent you...

                          he is a great guy and will charge you the exact ammount it costs him to ship stuff, he is very helpfull too

                          regards
                          Bob
                          N.G.W.B.J.
                          Member of 5 Towns Wine and Beer Makers Society (Yorkshire's newest)
                          Wine, mead and beer maker

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lockwood1956 View Post
                            that will likely change over time, i think you will find that the EC 1118 is more likely to blow off boquet than the K1V -1116, it will just take more time to be apparent, and it would seem that most meads take a looooooong time to become good (5 years plus sometimes)
                            That has also been my experience. I much prefer the 1116 unless I am making Root Beer! Cheers DAW

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                            • #15
                              If you want maximum alcohol production, maintain 60*F and feed with a complete yeast nutrient (not energizer) on a schedule. Every other day is great.

                              REBEL MODERATOR




                              ...lay down the boogie and play that funky music 'til ya die...'til ya die !"

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