Elderberry Melomel

[Guest]

I have saved many Bush Trickle Down Pennies to purchase the ingredience for a 50 gallon or 190 litre batch of elderberry 33 lbs, Chenin blanc 30 gallon, Voignier 6 gallon and honey 14 gallon. This is my first barrel size batch, the elderberry and honey will be pasterized, and added after 5 days. Can not afford the oak barrel, so 5 lbs of oak chunks in a food grade barrel.

What are your recommendations for additives? Sweet mead wyeast, Sg 1.2 calculated...not sure yet.

[StockeyDAW]

I have saved many Bush Trickle Down Pennies to purchase the ingredience for a 50 gallon or 190 litre batch of elderberry 33 lbs, Chenin blanc 30 gallon, Voignier 6 gallon and honey 14 gallon. This is my first barrel size batch, the elderberry and honey will be pasterized, and added after 5 days. Can not afford the oak barrel, so 5 lbs of oak chunks in a food grade barrel.

What are your recommendations for additives? Sweet mead wyeast, Sg 1.2 calculated...not sure yet.

WOW! Artis you have got a major project planned here - please give me a day or two to work things out for my opinion and suggestions. Final procedure is up to you. My initial response is we should get our resident elderberry person Crackedcork envolved with this thread for his great expertise in elderberry wines and growing them. I would say to start because elderberries a very citric and astringent that they should be blended with some malic fruits - i will suggest some later. I would also suggest that elderberries lend themselves well to a port type wine? port mead? sweet-higher alcohol content; could be fortified later. My early estimate is that you have something like 166 pounds of honey (12lbs/gallon). That would give enough honey for around 40 gallons of mead? 4 pounds of honey per gallon. My suggestion for SG would be something like 1.120-1.130 - the honey could be pasteurized all at once and started off that way or introduced in stages. You would need roughly 8 regular packages of yeast (maybe you have some in bulk - you would have to check if it is less costly that way) - is you primary fermenter large enough and do you have a large enough stainless steel cooking pot to pasteurize the honey? Do you have a large enough secondary fermenter. For the Oak chips 3-4 oz per 5 gallons medium toasted or toast yourself if you have an available oven? I would suggest Hungarian oak staves (stavin oak) my reading has suggested this and lots of recommendations for this type of oak. Back to the yeast lalvin 1116,71B-1122 or if you want some sparkling later red star Premier Cuvee these three have high alcohol tolerance. You mentioned a sweet mead yeast - I do not have the alcohol tolerance for that yeast handy - you would have to check that out. Also I have found that the sweet mead liquid yeast works well but it is hard to ship in warm or freezing weather? this yeast may have difficulties getting started in a high SG must? something else youwould have to check out. Back later when I have looked at the fruits. You are working in a larger batch than I or the usual home wine or mead maker do. Hey honey is expensive - something like 3$ a pound you want to make sure you give it your best effort. Cheers DAW

[StockeyDAW]

Here is a possible rundown of the fruit you could use: Elderberries (citric) - 3-4 lbs per gallon, figs (Malic) 6 lbs/gal @ 10-20% of that, $ or Raisins (malic) 3 lbs/gal @ 10-20% of that, Mulberries-Saskatoon or Chokecherries (Malic)- 6 lbs/gal @ 10-20% of that or sour or sweet fresh cherries 4lbs/gal/ @ 10-20% of that. These are in Imperial Gallons, only a suggestion and estimate of things that may go well together. That is up to you.
I understand there is a lot of Mead being made in your area. Cheers - hope it works out for you. DAW

[Aristaeus]

The malic is a good suggestion....I have rouge concentrate, the recipe ratios are 33 lbs elderberry, 30 gallon chenin blanc, 6 gallon voignier, 14 gallon honey (3 lbs or 1 quart honey per 3/4 gallon water); yes, I do have 16 gallons of pure, 18.2% water, tart wild flower honey. I have a friend with an apiary, who has a taste for my mead.

Alcohol tolerance of liquid sweet mead wyeast is 11% to start, so I plan on feeding the honey water syrup after adding elderberry and honey at day 5. Also have some liquid dry mead wyeast 18% alcohol tolerant. When sg drops to 1.01 more syrup will be added with new dry mead yeast. This method was suggested rather than starting at sg 1.15 or 1.2 (too high).

I have an old J. H. McKie double boiler brewing tank, it may have been manufactured in UK...? Do you know about them? It will hold temperature at 140 F - 212 F, thermostatic control. Honey and elderberry will be pasturized at 170 F for 5 minutes. No added acid planned until finish, per Ken Schramm's meadmaker book instructions.

Thanks I will add rouge juice...at what ration???

[StockeyDAW]

The malic is a good suggestion....I have rouge concentrate, the recipe ratios are 33 lbs elderberry, 30 gallon chenin blanc, 6 gallon voignier, 14 gallon honey (3 lbs or 1 quart honey per 3/4 gallon water); yes, I do have 16 gallons of pure, 18.2% water, tart wild flower honey. I have a friend with an apiary, who has a taste for my mead.

Alcohol tolerance of liquid sweet mead wyeast is 11% to start, so I plan on feeding the honey water syrup after adding elderberry and honey at day 5. Also have some liquid dry mead wyeast 18% alcohol tolerant. When sg drops to 1.01 more syrup will be added with new dry mead yeast. This method was suggested rather than starting at sg 1.15 or 1.2 (too high).

I have an old J. H. McKie double boiler brewing tank, it may have been manufactured in UK...? Do you know about them? It will hold temperature at 140 F - 212 F, thermostatic control. Honey and elderberry will be pasturized at 170 F for 5 minutes. No added acid planned until finish, per Ken Schramm's meadmaker book instructions.

Thanks I will add rouge juice...at what ration???

Some good experienced points here. Like your cooker for the pasteurization. I am a user of tartaric before fermentation - I really believe in that strongly, start you pH at 3.00-3.50. I also do not like using plastic for the secondary fermentation or for the bulk storage. You mentioned rouge juice - I think you are suggesting red grape concentrate for the malic addition? Yes this will work - something like 1 pint per gallon would do the trick according to some of the recipes that I have that use the red or white grape concentrate.---- Raisins would also work. Also I believe in the addition of nutrients and energizer before the start of fermentation but also after about 4 days of primary fermentation this is to ensure that the yeast is healthy and active going into the secondary part of the fermentation. As you suggest adding the honey gradually through the fermentation process is the way to go for high alcohol solutions. I would confirm the pH of each addition. Also like wild flower honey - had some last year from the Okanagan Valley and it was terrific.

only around 6 meaderies in the whole of Canada - still a lot of growing to do. Cheers DAW

[Aristaeus]

Santa LOVES Elderberry, tooooo!

You could wear elderberry on your person and it would improve your body talcum. If you had to master one fruit for either Wine or Mead, it would be Elderberry. Quote me...please!

We won a Bronze at WineMaker Magazine Wine Contest with a Oklahoma first - 100% made in Okiehoma, "Grapes of Wrath" Appellation, reliance grape and elderberry. It was the most beautiful deep dark Burgundy-Rose Red color.

A tawny port for sure, the tawny is taken to the maximun, brutel tawny...Puckers your face brutel tawny when new, it softens to a mellow melt-down on your taste buds at 4 years old. We have so few bottles that survive to the ripe old age of 4....painful is it, to see the last bottle disappear before maturity. So I am making 3 new 50 gallon batches. 11% alcohol sweet mead wyeast primary, Chenin blanc 60%, Voignier 12%, Honey 20%, 3 lbs light malt, 5 gallon pasteurized elderberry at day 5 with new 18% dry mead wyeast secondary. 500 ml lemon juice, 1 litre rouge concentrate for color and more acid. Yes, we will Hungarian Oak Chunk for age....how long? Any more suggestions would be appreciated.

It is all over but the prayer's....finished putting it to bed at 5 a.m. CST, 10 a.m. UK time. Let it rest for 24 hours, after cooling it down with cold steam distilled water. We pasteurized 16 gallon of honey and water. Today at 4 p.m. CST I will pitch a 2 hour starter. May the Melomel GOD be gracious, and smile, and smile, and smile upon us?! It is like a 5 year old waiting for Christmas!!!!

[Aristaeus]

What up next....only SANTA knows?

Two more 190 litre batches waiting in the wing...variations of #1.

#2 60% Voignier, 12% Chenin blanc, 20% honey, same light malt, and elderberry. Pasteur yeast, Cote des blanc primary, Pasteur Red secondary day 5 as before.

#3 60% Honey, 12% Voigner, 20% Chenin blanc,
same light malt, and elderberry. Lalvin yeast KV D 47 primary, KIV 1116 secondary.

Now if Santa would bring me a Hungarian Oak barrel for Christmas? My two accomplices are eager to start the next batch. They did the bum work, fetching, lifting and pouring...I salute them! One stayed the course until 5 a.m. 12 hours work for two and a half "old blokes"...as you would say.

[StockeyDAW]

Excellent - you really know how to put a mead together. Cheers DAW

[Aristaeus]

Many thanks are due this forum

It is simple to find a recipe or two, but the refined points make a good mead a step above...the truth is many a finer point was discovered on this forum.

Salute to all, I appreciate your time and tutelage.

Wish we could share a toast....

[Aristaeus]

Pitched new yeast...aroma abound...intoxication!

We pitched a new yeast in the 50 gal. elderberry melomel, Wyeast Dry Mead from a two day 5 gallon starter.

Oh, what an intoxicating aroma, the wife gave me an early Christmas present...a 65 gallon tank. She wants it filled before Christmas, as the scent has filled the house. Fermenting Elderberry melomel over-powers the scent of fresh brewing coffee, or those blasted candles, and the po-puree that makes me sneeze. This much in one house, it penetrates your dreams...I awaken at 3 a.m. slobbering for want of a glass.

At least such was my excuse to the Mrs. the next morning. Hey, it got me the tank! Early too!

[StockeyDAW]

We pitched a new yeast in the 50 gal. elderberry melomel, Wyeast Dry Mead from a two day 5 gallon starter.

Oh, what an intoxicating aroma, the wife gave me an early Christmas present...a 65 gallon tank. She wants it filled before Christmas, as the scent has filled the house. Fermenting Elderberry melomel over-powers the scent of fresh brewing coffee, or those blasted candles, and the po-puree that makes me sneeze. This much in one house, it penetrates your dreams...I awaken at 3 a.m. slobbering for want of a glass.

At least such was my excuse to the Mrs. the next morning. Hey, it got me the tank! Early too!

That is a lot of elderberry. Even though the vapours are so deliciously enticing to much could be not what you want? With that much you may need a ventilation system to control some of the vapors (extraction fan vented to the outdoors)? that is around 90 bottles of elderberry mead; a whole lot of enjoyable drinking there. Cheers DAW Great Xmas present nice to have that many elderberries around.

[StockeyDAW]

That is a lot of elderberry. Even though the vapours are so deliciously enticing to much could be not what you want? With that much you may need a ventilation system to control some of the vapors (extraction fan vented to the outdoors)? that is around 90 bottles of elderberry mead; a whole lot of enjoyable drinking there. Cheers DAW Great Xmas present nice to have that many elderberries around.

Sorry taking that 65 as liters?? 65 us gallons=246 liters divided by 23= 11 carboys = approx 330 750ml bottles my goodness that is 3 years worth? cheers DAW

[StockeyDAW]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4112829.html

Link is a type of vapor extraction system for excessive co2 vapors. Cheers DAW

[Aristaeus]

All is well...pic's soon.

All is well in the barrel of melomel...will use the new 65 gallon tank to rack into; then back again, to the 50 gallon. Looking so good!!! Pic's soon!

Two retired OKie's returned to the Grapes of
Wrath Appellation this week...to re-discovered their roots. They left Gore, OKieHoma in 1935, as young teenagers. The Mrs. dragged them home from the library, so we could talk wine and vines.

They have a 3 acre vineyard in Sonora County. Premium Chardonnay wines since 1991, and we have an invite to next years (August) harvest. My Mrs. is from Santa Rosa CA., so we will make the tour after making 600 gallons of Chardonnay with them.

You think me daffee to bust my hump at this age...it's what keeps me young.

[StockeyDAW]

All is well in the barrel of melomel...will use the new 65 gallon tank to rack into; then back again, to the 50 gallon. Looking so good!!! Pic's soon!

Two retired OKie's returned to the Grapes of
Wrath Appellation this week...to re-discovered their roots. They left Gore, OKieHoma in 1935, as young teenagers. The Mrs. dragged them home from the library, so we could talk wine and vines.

They have a 3 acre vineyard in Sonora County. Premium Chardonnay wines since 1991, and we have an invite to next years (August) harvest. My Mrs. is from Santa Rosa CA., so we will make the tour after making 600 gallons of Chardonnay with them.

You think me daffee to bust my hump at this age...it's what keeps me young.

Sonora county CLASS WINES there. Some of the best. However, take along a few cases of your Mead - if you can stay away from the shotgun blasts trying to keep you and the mead away???? no but it may be difficult to get them to drink some great mead after all the great wine that they have. Cheers DAW