Experiment!

[happymondays]

I want to make 4 batches of just plain Wildflower Mead like this,

1. Honey, Water, Yeast

2. Honey, Water, Yeast, Nutrients (packet variety)

3. Honey, Water, Yeast, Bee Pollen 2 tsp (avg addition from what I can gather)

4. Honey, Water, Yeast, Bee Pollen 4 tsp

5. Honey, Water, Yeast, Dried Blueberries

I just want to compare them to really see what differences there will be to the ferment, ageing and taste. I want to record all the usual and keep them obviously all the same at the start S.G. and Ph.

My only question is type of yeast?

http://www.lallemandwine.us/products/yeast_chart.php

Now if all the different yeasts can add a taste to the mead then I need one yeast to add to all 4, or do I?

Now for the first one its going to be low in nitrogen from not adding nutrients so I would want to add a low nitrogen required yeast, so which yeast should I go for?

This is just really for me to decide if going the more natural way is going to work or not, feel free to suggest any methods or advice its all welcome,

Best Regards Scott.......

p.s. I need to ask the kind people of Freecycle to donate the 4 DJ's needed for this so got plenty of time.

[lockwood1956]

I wouldn't ferment honey without nutrients, thats an off flavour/smell/stuck ferment disaster waiting to happen!

hope this helps
regards
Bob

[StockeyDAW]

I want to make 4 batches of just plain Wildflower Mead like this,

1. Honey, Water, Yeast

2. Honey, Water, Yeast, Nutrients (packet variety)

3. Honey, Water, Yeast, Bee Pollen 2 tsp (avg addition from what I can gather)

4. Honey, Water, Yeast, Bee Pollen 4 tsp

I just want to compare them to really see what differences there will be to the ferment, ageing and taste. I want to record all the usual and keep them obviously all the same at the start S.G. and Ph.To start I would 100% agree with Bob concerning the nutrient; this is one necessity in mead making and without it, it just will give you endless problems. So make the nutrient a priority in each batch approx 1 tsp per gallon before the start of fermentation and a addition of yeast energizer at 1/2 the concentration on the package at approximately 4 days after the fermentation starts. I like the Red Star Premier Cuvee for clear meads and these have an alcohol tolerance of 18% approximately 3.5-4 lbs of honey per gallon (way to much to start for my liking as I would do chaptalization to get the alcohol level to the 18%. My best preference for honey is 3.5 pounds per gallon approximately 17 pounds per 5 imperial gallon batch. You can also use the Red Star Pasteur Champagne for alcohol tolerance to the 15% level (not my favorite). For the Lalvin yeasts in the clear Mead's I would suggest ICVD-47 for the 15% alcohol range and if you must go to the higher alcohols the EC-1118 - I sure do have other better preferences in yeast for mead but these are for the melomels and pyments etc. To keep them all the same for pH you will have to make sure that the honey has come from the same hive and same location - honey especially wild flower and others vary a great deal from location to location and season to season---It will depend what wild flowers are in bloom and how many? To keep the pH at the correct level I always use tartaric acid before fermentation starts

My only question is type of yeast?see above

http://www.lallemandwine.us/products/yeast_chart.php

Now if all the different yeasts can add a taste to the mead then I need one yeast to add to all 4, or do I?see above

Now for the first one its going to be low in nitrogen from not adding nutrients so I would want to add a low nitrogen required yeast, so which yeast should I go for?I would vary the honey varietal say one wild flower, one of the bell heather, one of the other type of heather and the other from clover or something like that -NOTE the reason for the heather honey and the pollen addition is that the heather varietal of honey has the greatest concentration of many of the compounds that were mentioned in the Bee Pollen article that you posted

This is just really for me to decide if going the more natural way is going to work or not, feel free to suggest any methods or advice its all welcome,

Best Regards Scott.......

p.s. I need to ask the kind people of Freecycle to donate the 4 DJ's needed for this so got plenty of time.

Scott: only my suggestion - I am really partial to the heather honey here as it is something that I am not able to get mainly because of expense and also the challenge to make great mead from heather honey as there is no real definite documentation that Heather honey will make great mead? I think that it will - interesting test? The addition of nuitrients, acid addition to get the pH in the correct range to ensure a quick efficient fermentation process is one of the good points to making great mead - my method anyway, Cheers Daw

[happymondays]

Thanks Bob, Daw,

Cheers for the replies, so for the first one instead of Nutrients could I add 1lb of a dark honey instead, I know this is going to add a different flavour, oh bugger so many things to take into account.
I do understand what you both are saying about Nutrients, I will have a think,

Best Regards Scott.....

p.s. anyone got any DJ's

[fatbloke]

-----%<-----
p.s. anyone got any DJ's

Yeah! about 450 at last count

regards

JtFB

[happymondays]

Well I have got enough DJ's to start but I am going to do 5 separate gallon batches instead of 4 with the 5th one with dried fruit only as nutrients using dried Blueberries.
So will see how it goes,

Regards Scott.....

[happymondays]

Well thought I would do an update,

For #1 instead of using just wildflower honey I had read that when trying to make a Mead without Nutrients it was advisable to add a proportion of a Darker honey as these contain more natural Nutrients and minerals so I added 1lb of Mexican Yucatan honey to the wildflower for an SG 1.100.


For 2,3,4,5, I mixed just Wildflower to SG 1.100, with all batches using Lalvin K1-V116 re-hydrated and added to a starter before pitching.

Ph was 4.4 before ferment started.

I staggered all the other Nutrients to the rest and found that,

#1 is still fermenting at SG 1.022 after 35 days (No Nutrients) Ph3.59

#2 fermented to SG 1.000 after 17 days (using DAP) Ph3.58

#3 fermented to SG 1.000 after 35 days (using 2tsp Bee Pollen) Ph3.60

#4 fermented to SG 1.000 after 35 days (using 4tsp Bee Pollen) Ph3.59

#5 is still fermenting at SG 1.012 after 35 days (using approx 30 dried blueberries) Ph3.82


I did notice that using more Bee pollen slowed the initial ferment but it still finished at the same time as the lesser one with Bee Pollen.

The one with dried Blueberries has changed to a dark colour as you might imagine.

I have to admit it does seem that using any form of the DAP based Nutrients is a lot quicker than using the more "Natural" based ones I have tried and this was in no way a Laboratory type experiment just an idea on how it would pan out for me.
I am no expert but I couldn't taste or smell any off flavours or smells, although #1 does taste the best out of the bunch but still has a way to go yet to hopefully get to an SG 1.000

When I first set out making country wines last year I liked the idea of finding free fruit from the hedgerows and producing wine from them so I suppose when I started trying Meads I wondered if it was possible to make these the Old fashioned way with any better results, I wish I could say that using some of the natural additions is a better way but at the moment from my limited attempts I have a long way to go yet although the use of Bee Pollen would be a good alternative for me.
Now I have learnt a lot even from the start of this and have just got some of the Nutrients from the US that Lallemand promote to good and healthy fermentations (Go-Ferm and Fermaid K) to see if there are any differences in using these so will be interesting to see how these fair.

I think a few Cysers are next on the list and a Cherry Mel,

Regards Scott......

[fatbloke]

Well done so far Scott, it looks like it's coming on, considering that it's not exactly what you could call a "clinical trial".

Still not sure about K1V though, I know that DAW likes it, but when I used it before I didn't like the result - in fairness though, I was probably just too impatient. As I understand that it ages well and that makes a hell of a difference. For preference I like the 71B.

The batch of "heather honey" mead I've got on the go has used k1V, but that was more of a compromise as I was so confused by the v high pH of the must before I pitched the yeast (oh and adding the 4 tsp's of acid to bring it down). The batch is predictably "rough" at the moment, though surprisingly it's dropped from a start gravity of about 1140 to 1008 (in 14 days) and it's still bubbling - hence I'm not sure why that might be because I understood that K1V "pooped out" at about 16 % and mine is currently IRO 18+ %.

As for the roughness, I'm not sure whether that's the honey or the yeast (and the 6g per litre of Gervin Minavit nutrient).

I also intend ordering some Go-Ferm and Fermaid-K (and I noticed a different seller also has Fermax which I thought I might try), did you get "dosage" instructions with them ?

Anyway, well done on the "experiment" matey - they're looking good as far as I can see.

keep the updates coming.

regards

JtFB

[happymondays]

Well done so far Scott, it looks like it's coming on, considering that it's not exactly what you could call a "clinical trial".

Nope your right John it isn't but it has given me an idea of what can be done on the ferment side of things and there is more to do I know, to be honest I was more curious how the Bee Pollen faired to the DAP

Still not sure about K1V though, I know that DAW likes it, but when I used it before I didn't like the result - in fairness though, I was probably just too impatient. As I understand that it ages well and that makes a hell of a difference. For preference I like the 71B.

The K1V requires lower Nutrient levels in the must so that was the reason I went for this as I am not bothered about ageing, more to see how the fermentations went as I intend to add fruit to them in one form or another or maybe some spices or even both. My next batches are going to be with the 71B as its meant to have a rapid ferment and needs less ageing so thats next on the list

The batch of "heather honey" mead I've got on the go has used k1V, but that was more of a compromise as I was so confused by the v high pH of the must before I pitched the yeast (oh and adding the 4 tsp's of acid to bring it down). The batch is predictably "rough" at the moment, though surprisingly it's dropped from a start gravity of about 1140 to 1008 (in 14 days) and it's still bubbling - hence I'm not sure why that might be because I understood that K1V "pooped out" at about 16 % and mine is currently IRO 18+ %.

Good to hear the Heather is coming on although I would imagine your in for a long wait but still its a benchmark to go off, I might get round to having a go this summer just need to nail down a process that I am happy with and whether its with DAP or "Natural" time will tell, but its coming together I am happy so far

As for the roughness, I'm not sure whether that's the honey or the yeast (and the 6g per litre of Gervin Minavit nutrient).

I also intend ordering some Go-Ferm and Fermaid-K (and I noticed a different seller also has Fermax which I thought I might try), did you get "dosage" instructions with them ?

Yes they came loose with a stamp on with instructions and ingredients but Lallemand's site has all the dosages on their Library.
BUT there is a bit of difference in some peoples dosages, some use DAP with Fermaid-K some don't and just use Fermaid-K, Ken mentioned on another thread on here about dosages and also Oskaar on Gotmead posted one about Fermaid-K too with a recent reply

Anyway, well done on the "experiment" matey - they're looking good as far as I can see.

keep the updates coming.

regards

JtFB

Cheers FB its the learning all the time thats the fun bit just need to get a good routine together now that I am happy with,
Regards Scott......