My next batch is gonna be made with............

[fatbloke]

Even at $8.50 US/lb, that comes out to less than $10 a 75 cl bottle in honey cost, and you can't touch a decent Bordeaux for $10 a bottle here nowadays.

It's a bit stiff, but I'd spring for it if I had the option. Now the Manuka, on the other hand? I'm gonna have to pass on that.

KDS

Ah! Ok I can see the point/justification there Ken

It's just got me a little puzzled as to why heather honey does seem to be so expensive in the US/Canada ?

Surely, given the size of "North America", logic dictates that there must be a region that produces a honey similar/same as English/Scottish/Irish/whatever heather honey ???

regards

JtFB

[compleat meadmaker]

Hi 'Bloke

I did a quick search at the US National Honey Board Honey Locator, and no US sources could be found. Maybe it's the lack of commercial heather production in the US.

There are some mighty fine varietal honeys here, but that just doesn't seem to be one of them. It could be just the grass being greener on the other side, wanting what you can't have, but the heather honey I've tasted had much more flavor and impact than most of what I can find here.

Ken

[fatbloke]

Somethings wrong, but what ?

I thought I was getting the hang of this mead making lark. Apparently not!

After the nearly £20 on heather honey, extensive reading up, considering the various "choice" type things...........

Then coming to actually put the batch together and it's still going to a SoS!

For reasons that I currently can't fathom.

I've followed the procedure, correctly, as far as I can tell i.e.

Honey into DJ, rinsing the jars in warm tap water.

Shaking it to mix/dissolve the honey.

Great, it seems to have done that.

Then, following the instructions on the box of Minavit - opting for the 6 grammes per litre suggestion, because of the suspected high gravity, and taking into account that honey is notoriously low in nutrient so as it's a gallon DJ/4.5 litres, that equates to 27 grammes.

The cold tea - well OK, not that cold but still a pint of it.

Then the campden tablet - crushed and dissolved.

Then the top up to about 3 quarters full (mineral water i.e. locally sourced but with lower than "tap" calcium, from a "low calcium" spring).

Excellent.

For there on (apart from the 5 minutes agitation for aeration purposes) it goes into "mystery mode"/SoS/WTF etc.

Why?

Because the intention was to measure the gravity and pH at this point.

The gravity, as expected is about 1135, but the pH is showing as 6.67 i.e. damn near neutral. WTF is going on?

Stress sets in.

OK, get the 7.00 buffer solution and check the calibration of the pH meter. OK it seems to be a couple of hundredths out - set it so that it reads 7.00

Rinse it with water, shake it off and try again.

No! still showing 6.66 - hell that can't be right? surely?

OK, check the stage of the recipe, and the only thing that isn't in it at this point, is the citric acid.

1 teaspoon full? Yes, that's what it says. So measure out 1 tsp and dissolve in a little water. Add it to the must, cork the DJ and shake to mix.

Measure pH again? OK, except it now seems to be showing 6.37, still way out.

So, what to do? OK, clean everything off, wipe down, cork the DJ and leave it (oh and rinse the 71B that was re-hydrating in a glass with 2oz's of water down the damn sink).

The only thing that I can think of that might be giving incorrect readings is due to temperature.

I haven't measured it (apart from making sure of the temp of the water for rehydrating the yeast) yet. Though using blood temp as a guide, the must isn't warm (suggesting over 37 C), but it's not cold either.

The buffer solution came out of the fridge (apparently it's better kept in there) so might be as low as 2 to 4 C. So for the moment, rather than screw everything up, leave it to come up to room temp and the must to come down (that's if it's high) to room temp.

I'm convinced that I can't be that far out with the must. Because I've not had any occassion where it would need such a potentially huge amount of acid addition (being so far - currently - away from the apparently ideal 3.3 or thereabouts).

I'm a bit irritated at having to dump the yeast, but it's the cheaper option than panicing dumping the must.

Hum? Confused, dazed, stressed, etc etc.

If, when it's all settled down, it's still such a high pH, what would the next step be ?

regards

JtFB

[fatbloke]

Ok, so a bit of further checking has done nothing to allay my confusion.

Looking at the temp advice on the "buffer solution" bottle for the pH meter calibration and it should read 7.01 at 20 degrees C, ok the meter says 6.99, the temp is exactly 20.0 C (amazingly enough), so I calibrate the meter to the suggested 7.01 and I'm happy that the pH meter seems to be fine.

I measure temp of the must, which is showing 27.0 C - I take a sample, check the temp, which shows as 25 C, so that's the correct temp, comparing to the buffer solution/meter reading.

It now shows a pH of 6.29 for the must, which, if I understand it correctly, means that I'd need to add quite a lot of acid to bring it down to get anywhere near the seemingly ideal pH of 3.3

So the question is now, do I add acid at this stage i.e. before pitching the yeast or not ???

God this is confusing the hell out of me!

regards

JtFB

[StockeyDAW]

Ok, so a bit of further checking has done nothing to allay my confusion.

Looking at the temp advice on the "buffer solution" bottle for the pH meter calibration and it should read 7.01 at 20 degrees C, ok the meter says 6.99, the temp is exactly 20.0 C (amazingly enough), so I calibrate the meter to the suggested 7.01 and I'm happy that the pH meter seems to be fine.

I measure temp of the must, which is showing 27.0 C - I take a sample, check the temp, which shows as 25 C, so that's the correct temp, comparing to the buffer solution/meter reading.

It now shows a pH of 6.29 for the must, which, if I understand it correctly, means that I'd need to add quite a lot of acid to bring it down to get anywhere near the seemingly ideal pH of 3.3

So the question is now, do I add acid at this stage i.e. before pitching the yeast or not ???

God this is confusing the hell out of me!

regards

JtFB

Below is a link - quite technical that may help you in this endeavour. FB the heather honey is produced in very special environmental conditions, near the sea, very acid soil some very wet sites (bogs) and some drier. What type of heather honey did you get Ling (gelatinous) or Bell (not gelatinous)?

I have laboratory results from Ling honey with figures of a maximum of 5.1 pH and minimum of 3.9 pH. The way I make mead yes I use acid. Ph levels will vary from site to site and season to season. Best if the pH is at least at 3.5 or below before pitching the yeast at least that is the way that works for me. Have you diluted your must? What is the Starting Gravity? Do you have the acid suitable for the type of mead that you are making. You would start with a pH of 6.29 which is high and requires the must to be balanced otherwise you may end up with bacterial problem and contamination problems and with likely low acid levels a unfavorable fermentation process.
Remember others use different methods - but this is the way that I would try to make it. If you are in doubt try it both ways and see what way works the best for you.

Cheers you are in some new territory. Not many heather Mead's being made? Nice liquors with heather honey. Lets confirm some good Mead's using this terrific honey can be made. You are fortunate to be near the source to do this work. Cheers Daw Only my opinion.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Lmq1al-wB_EJ:www.brehmvineyards.com/receivingyourgrapes.pdf+how+much+tartaric+decrease+the+pH+level&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=13

[fatbloke]

Thanks for the link DAW, your effort is greatly appreciated.

Having read through it a couple of times, I haven't got a clue about how to modify it, other than adding some acid, then pitching the yeast to see how it gets on.

It seems that I haven't got anything that will allow me to work out the equation with any accuracy i.e. brix/% acidity etc etc.

Hence I'm guessing that trial and error is all that's left open to me.

I've even tried to see if adding some of the nutrient to water changed the pH, but it appears not (I tried about 2 oz of water - getting a pH of 7.17, then added a tsp of the nutrient. The final measure was 7.11 - so that's that idea out of the window ).

So I'll stick a couple of teaspoons of acid into it, and because of the high gravity, change from using 71B to EC-1118.

If it does seem to ferment out and I end up with any of the "medicinal" flavour, I can always sorbate and back sweeten as I still have 1 lb of the honey left.

Damn this is confusing. I understood that honey is supposed to be acid, not nearly neutral

Ah well, back to the drawing board.

regards

JtFB

[happymondays]

I have just done a quick search John and found this,

http://www.revital.co.uk/Active_Manuka_Gold_Honey_5

now for Manuka honey which is also a dark honey they state that its ph can be anything from 3.0 to 6.0 so it seems that your near neutral ph can occur.
You know me for researching but I remember seeing something on honey being harvested at the right time and having a certain water %, I wonder if this batch of honey has been harvested at a higher water % so giving a higher ph if that makes sense, I will try and find the link I have seen it on,

Regards Scott.....

[fatbloke]

I have just done a quick search John and found this,

http://www.revital.co.uk/Active_Manuka_Gold_Honey_5

now for Manuka honey which is also a dark honey they state that its ph can be anything from 3.0 to 6.0 so it seems that your near neutral ph can occur.
You know me for researching but I remember seeing something on honey being harvested at the right time and having a certain water %, I wonder if this batch of honey has been harvested at a higher water % so giving a lower ph if that makes sense, I will try and find the link I have seen it on,

Regards Scott.....

Quite possible Scott, but it was quite thick/viscous when I was pouring it from the jar(s).

I just haven't got a clue as to why it should be showing such a high pH.

regards

JtFB

p.s. I'm glad I'm not paying anything like the prices that are quoted on the link you posted - it'd have to contain edible gold leaf

[fatbloke]

I found a few articles that briefly mention that yeast should still work fine with a pH approaching neutral i.e. 7.0

but I'm a little concerned about using 71B due to it's alcohol tolerance, so to make myself feel a little better I'm now thinking that I might just use a packet of K1V tomorrow.

I'm still undecided whether it might be worth chucking a tsp of citric and a tsp of tartaric in it - I doubt whether it would actually drop the pH very much, but I'm guessing it couldn't hurt to try!

Ah well..........

regards

JtFB

p.s. erm, on the last check, the gravity was showing as 1140 or enough for 19.02 %ABV, so if K1V fermented out properly I'd still have something like 2 to 3% residual sugar. Nice

[happymondays]

I couldn't find the link about the water % it was in Kens book in the honey table, but it doesn't have Heather in it but showed a Prune Honey with a ph of 6.0

I was going to have a look at testing my jar of Heather honey but its all gone thought I had some left,
I think when I started one of the first ones it took quite a bit of acid to lower by even a few drops,

regards Scott.....

p.s whats it taste like?

[fatbloke]

I couldn't find the link about the water % it was in Kens book in the honey table, but it doesn't have Heather in it but showed a Prune Honey with a ph of 6.0

I was going to have a look at testing my jar of Heather honey but its all gone thought I had some left,
I think when I started one of the first ones it took quite a bit of acid to lower by even a few drops,

regards Scott.....

Well in the end, after trying to read world plus dog, too see if I could find anything, I ended up adding 2 tsp of citric and 2 tsp of tartaric (that includes the 1 tsp of citric mentioned in the recipe).

When I tested it, it showed a pH of 4.29 - which I was happy with.

So I've rehydrated the yeast and pitched it (at about 11 this morning) - I did give it a good shake after pitching and it was bubbling very slowly by the time we got back from lunch at the outlaws (at 2).

Oh, it was K1V that I pitched - I figured that it might have been 71B that I'd been aiming to use but with a SG of 1140, it might have had to fight a bit hard - I understand that K1V is an "aggressive" yeast.

Plus I'm expecting that it will be a bit on the rough side when/if it's done. Though that's more to do with the reputation of heather honey.

p.s whats it taste like?

I don't know how to describe it Scott, because I haven't got a clue what descriptives might be used for honey other than it's strongish, with a pronounced "honey flavour" type after taste. Maybe a little earthy.

Sorry that's a bit vague! But the best I can come up with.

regards

JtFB

p.s. Oh and I also asked about this at gotmead, wayneb has posted a nice hint about checking the local water, by comparison methods.

As the batch is up and (apparently) running, I don't really need to do that, but I will as it's handy to know how the local water compares on the pH front.

[happymondays]

Glad to hear you managed to get it going be interesting to see how it turns out taste wise, yep thats what the jar of Heather Honey I had tasted like very earthy but still very good with a hint of something else,

main thing is its going, you should post a running diary on this one John!

Regards Scott.....

[fatbloke]

Dunno if that's necessary, but I was going to start a thread about clarifying a few techniques - hopefully the experienced mead makers will participate and put their 5 pence worth in.

I'll post updates for it anyway, though I expect it to taste rough when it's finished fermenting - due to the reputation of heather honey and my own personal experiences with K1V i.e. K1V finished rough last time I tried it, but apparently it does age very well.

Apparently that's what happens with heather honey as well, though I don't know how long it's going to take to age - 12 months plus is my guess.

regards

JtFB

[fatbloke]

Todays update!

Well it's been bubbling for a week or so now.

I've just given it a quick test, the gravity is now at 1045 - which'd be nearly a 100 point drop in a week.

I then pH tested a small amount of the sample (most went back into the fermenter - my wine thief doesn't fit through the hole - quite). It's currently measuring a pH of 3.95, so the ferment has, as others have explained, dropped the numbers a bit.

Now bearing in mind that this is nowhere near finished, I then tasted the little bit I used for testing the pH and WOW!, it's showing real possibilities.

Obviously there's a bit of "yeastiness" about it, but it has a pronounced honey flavour (well I suppose that's to be expected - it's made from heather honey), with a good measure of sweetness still showing through - though that also might be to do with the fact that it's still showing a S.G. of 1045.

Either way, I could have happily drunk the lot

I've got to wait a bit longer before I actually top it up to the bottom of the neck of the DJ, because it's still foaming some.

So right now, I'm very pleased with it's progress.

regards

JtFB

[StockeyDAW]

[QUOTE=fatbloke;29972]this! (see below).

I couldn't get "Scottish" heather locally, so "English" will have to do, but it will be my first attempt at a batch of mead made with "varietal" honey.

regards

Great to supply photo FB. Looks dark like buckwheat honey. Was it real thick? Could the people you purchased it from tell you what species of heather flowers (nectar) that the bees were feeding on? I have some laboratory tests and results from the ling honey that we could use as you go along with the project (sorry an old copy so can not send to you). Cheers Daw -- Do you have a photo of the heather honey fermenting? sure would like to see that one.