Plastic bottles

[F. Hackett's Ghost]

What is the best way of sterilising a 1 gallon PET bottle for fermentation?
Would you use a chlorine-based product like VWP or sodium metabisulphite?

Thanks for any advice.

[Mamgiowl]

I use a chlorine based product and haven't seen any deterioration yet

[lockwood1956]

I sterilise when first using (VWP or similar) and rinse rinse rinse rinse rinse

Then after using i rinse well with hot water to clean and sanitise using sodium metabisulphite/campden before storing, and again before using, I like this method as I don't have to rinse like crazy, I'm always paranoid about leaving steriliser in the thing. the sodium metabisulphite/campden will not harm anything if not rinsed properly

sterilising = 100% clean and germ free

sanitising = 99% clean and germ free

how about everyone else?

regards
Bob

[Axl]

I'm fanatical about making sure i've rinsed everything off/out properly, they'll be no blocked drains down our road with the amount of rinsing out i do

[lockwood1956]

Do you know i never thought about using baby bottle steriliser, its bound to be safer if not rinsed properly than VWP,
hurrah
paranoia over (almost)

regards
Bob

[F. Hackett's Ghost]

Thanks for your ideas.
Paranoia... VWP actually makes my gums tingle if I am not careful with it.

[lockwood1956]

I would dilute it some more next time you drink it then



regards
Bob

[F. Hackett's Ghost]

Cheers Bob. I meant when I am standing over it, but i'll beer that in mind when the wine runs out.

[Daft as a Brush]

I've said this before but I use washing soda for cleaning very stubborn grime or a soak for 20 mins in solution of thin bleach (3ml/L) for steraliing and (4ml/L) for light cleaning .

Thin bleach is so much cheaper 12p/L and rinses so much easier than the proprietry cleaner/steralisers, works in the same way by releasing chlorine and can be neutralised with sodium met for the paranoid. (Sodium met doesn't need rinsing either, (I believe it's the only preservative allowed in beer)

I have heard of people using Oxylclean for cleaning and steralising duties, has anyone here tried it?

[P cuthbert]

[QUOTE= (Sodium met doesn't need rinsing either, (I believe it's the only preservative allowed in beer)

I have heard of people using Oxylclean for cleaning and steralising duties, has anyone here tried it?[/QUOTE]


Don't use metabisulphite in beer making. It is not suitable because of the higher pH of the beer compared with wine.

Metabisulphite in beer will kill off the yeast too and prevent bottle conditioning. If you use it as a sanitizer, you will have to rinse extremely well to remove all traces.

Oxygen cleansers can be used. They produce hydrogen peroxide which quickly breaks down in the light.

Best product for sanitizing for beer making is "Iodophor". This is a concentrated iodine solution that you dilute. Use it in a spray bottle and keep it in the dark when not in use. Buy a bottle, and you will have a lifetime supply.

Iodophor is not recommended for use in winemaking though.

Pat

[Daft as a Brush]

I have to disagree. Soduim Met is often used as a preservative in beer, it acts as an anti-oxidant, slows the growth of some organisms including wild yeast but leaves bewers yeast unharmed . It is also used by many homebrewers as a water treatment for removing chlorine and chloromine from the water supply.

The recomended dossage for light steralising duties or as I use it for keeping stuff 'sweet for short periods, is a 10% solution or 2oz per pint. I've been using it for several years with no ill effect on me or the beer.

If anyone is interested Iodophor can be bought from the chemist as Standardised Betadine Antiseptic Solution (Aqueous) although it will probably have to be ordered, it's cheaper that way though. Use a 1.25-2.5ml/L solution, in theory it doesn't need rinsing, although I give large obects such as fermentors and cask a quick rinse.

[Daft as a Brush]

It was pointed out by Lockwood that I appear to condone the use of Sodium Met as a steraliser, I don't.

Quote (me)...Sodium met isn't an effective steraliser as it isn't effective against gram negative bacteria (don't know what they are but don't want them in my beer) SO2 stuns wild yeast but leaves brewers yeast unaffected, it allows brewers yeast to become the dominating yeast.

It is OK in wine making as wine musts contain higher sugar concentrations and are less prone to bacterial growth.

Just as well as I have always said you winos are a grubby bunch

Quote(Mee)....The only steralisers I have recommended here are thin bleach (kills all know germs dead etc.. and rinses well) and iodophor.

SO2 Neautralizes chlorine, so if you are paranoid about bleach tainting your brew, use it to rinse with. (Unquote mee) AFTER USING BLEACH

and before anyone says anything it must must must be thin bleach, thick bleach and the branded names contain somesort of agent to make them cling, that is wht they are a pain in the backside to rinse off.

[F. Hackett's Ghost]

Thanks for the info on bleach, which’s new to me.
Does sulphite still protect against other common spoilage bacteria in Beer?

P Cuthbert also said: "Buy a bottle, and you will have a lifetime supply" in respect to Iodophor. I find that a bit spurious because the iodine must have decomposed into its free radicals by then. Especially in a plastic bottle. On a similar note, did you know that bleach has a use by date or that it must not be stored near other household chemicals?

[Daft as a Brush]

It does retard the growth of some organisms in beer, whether that is considered as protection against "common spoilage bacteria" i'm not sure but it is the only preservative permitted.

I was unaware that bleach had a sell by date, presumably it should be stored away from other household chemicals because of the danger of it mixing in some way. I recall a story from somewhere about a cleaner who put toilet cleaner in the bowl followed by bleach and ended up producing hydrochloric acid or something.

[P cuthbert]

Iodophor will keep for a long time if stored properly. Keep it tightly sealed, and out of the light.


Quoted from http://www.bayareamashers.org/conten...s/iodophor.htm An interesting discussion on Iodophor.

"I asked Dr. Landman about the "shelf life" of B-T-F Iodophor and he related a story about one of their distributors who had found a case of the product that had been forgotten for 5 years and returned it to the manufacturer. NCI tested the 5 year old product and found that it still met standards. This was, of course, undiluted iodophor that had been well packaged and protected from exposure to light, air etc.

Regarding iodophor that has been diluted to a working solution, Dr. Landman explained that there are a number of things that work to degrade the products' efficacy. Chlorine and protein load were the two mentioned first, but Dr. Landman agreed that both sunlight and exposure to the atmosphere may very well be factors. Iodophor is very stable in it's undiluted form, but will begin to degrade, (albeit slowly), once it has been diluted to a working solution. In either case, it is far more stable than chlorine which begins to degrade immediately upon being manufactured. The color of the iodophor solution is a rough guide to it's effectiveness as a sanitizer. If the solution still has its amber color, it is most likely still active. It is recommended that a fresh solution should be mixed when the color fades or after 24 hours. "

Mixing bleach with any acidic cleaner will cause a release of chlorine gas. If you see a green gas, get to fresh air immediately. It burns the lung tissue.

Pat