Constant Temperature in a Garage

[arcam_man]

I'm just returning to winemaking after many years. I am going to have to ferment in the garage and have been looking at options to keep it at a constant temperature when it gets cooler in the autumn/winter. As I don't think heating trays would be sufficient, I'm thinking of buying a large wooden box (probably off e-bay) that can hold at least 4 demijohns and fitting it with a thermostatic element heater I have available that was used as antifrost protection in an outhouse. This should keep the ferment at a reasonable temperature and dark. Has anyone tried anything similar?

[koomber]

A Lot of beer brewers use a similar setup to regulate the temperature of their beer for serving, this setups can easily be converted (and often are) for use to control fermentation temps.

The basic idea is a fridge/freezer with a 40 or 60 watt lightbulb in it. Some people use heaters, but a lightbulb will do the job. They then hook it up to a temeprature controller that can run a heating and cooling circuit.

Usually the temp controller used is something like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-AC-220V-LCD-/180690039619?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2a11f73343

Basically the controller can make the box hotter or colder as required. If you were only going to use heater, then I would just use the heating circuit and ignore the cooler.

In the states I've heard of people moving up from the fridge setup to getting large sheets of polystyrene foam and basically building a box with that and using a heater/chiller system to moderate the temperature (taking care not to use a heater that could generate enough heat to melt the foam).

[kampervan]

remember you cant just lie a bulb in fridge it will melt plastic.( i know i did it) i have fridge with controller from ebay and a heating mat/tray. works a treat

[Cellar_Rat]

Just a thought chaps, but aware of your electrical loads?

This unit:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-AC-220V-LCD-/180690039619?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2a11f73343

Does: 5A / 220V on a single circuit not hot and cold, from what I can see.

IF you don't need cooling and the antifrost heater is less than 5 amps. Sorted.

I am looking at these quite close at the moment for controlling fermentation temps

This unit was mentioned also on this forum...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330558830820?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

This little chap does:
Heating Circuit: 10 Amp and 2400 Watt
Refrigeration Circuit: 20 Amp and 4800 Watt (motor's need 3x rated Amps to start - hence the bigger values and higher price)

Hope that makes sense?

[koomber]

Just a thought chaps, but aware of your electrical loads?

This unit:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-AC-220V-LCD-/180690039619?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2a11f73343

Does: 5A / 220V on a single circuit not hot and cold, from what I can see.

IF you don't need cooling and the antifrost heater is less than 5 amps. Sorted.

I am looking at these quite close at the moment for controlling fermentation temps

This unit was mentioned also on this forum...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330558830820?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

This little chap does:
Heating Circuit: 10 Amp and 2400 Watt
Refrigeration Circuit: 20 Amp and 4800 Watt (motor's need 3x rated Amps to start - hence the bigger values and higher price)

Hope that makes sense?

A Good point about the loads. If you are using something beefy to control the temperature then you might want to use something more substantial in terms of the temperature controller.

[arcam_man]

I'm not so concerned about cooling. The thermostatically controlled heater I have is substantial with a solid element (not a wire filament) and is protected by a rigid case and has a lowest frost protection setting. However, despite an old fridge being well insulated, I would not be happy putting such a heater near plastic which is why I'm suggesting a large wooden box which is far less combustible. I live in the Peak District and we had temperatures down to -18 degrees C at times last winter (-3 degrees C in the garage) so I will probably need something more capable than a light bulb.

It sounds from the replies that this would be worth trying.

[arcam_man]

Thinking about this again I actually quite like the ideas of kampervan and koomber of a second hand fridge fitted with a heating mat (not my heater or a lightbulb). If the fridge is large enough I'm not sure I'd bother with the controller - if it got too warm i could leave it open ajar - but I could see how it goes. The good thing about the fridge is the insulation which would help in the winter. I have seen some large larder fridges going on e-bay reasonably close to me.

[Cellar_Rat]

I have looked at this again.
We are fixating here on using your heater and building the solution around it.

Lets look at what your requirement is and start from there..

Requirement
Your requirement IMO is..
• A fermenting cabinet to work in a cold area.
• Capacity 2 DJ
• Operating in temp range from -5 to +25c
• Must be safe (not catch fire etc)
• No cooling - the assumption is ambient temp is always lowest.
• There is a budget - lets not go mad!

If we start from this point we need..
• A cabinet (cheap and fit for purpose)
• A heat source (flexible /expandable)
• A Controller
• Safety controls


Solutions
I have build similar things in the past - but they were incubators. These maintained a constant 33c. Constant 18-20 = happy days!

The solution is a light bulb(s) in a fridge. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. And save the expense/time on building a box.

It very easy to setup. Old fridges are a purpose built, wipe down, insulated box with a door about the size of a couple of demijohn.

Underneath the lowest rack mount a bulk head light fitting. Heat rises, putting them in low will cause air flow (better distribution). If you put them high in the cabinet you may get temperature lamination.

Controllers: Previously I have used honeywell room stat or tank stats to control it...BUT these and very very easy to overload even with bulbs so the first unit Koomber mentioned would be better. Brilliant in fact.

Testing and Calibrating
When you first test it (with a DJ full of water) if it is only just keeping up add another lamp - or use 100w instead of 60w Add a second lamp to the controller.

Also consider having a small lamp on permanently and then another on a stat.
This can also act like a summer/winter switch. You can then turn it off in the summer when the ambient temp goes up. You might also want to use this one as a preheater.

Don't forget the lamps will be on much more initially, 'cos everything including 2 gallons of water is stone cold. Operationally preheating is a goooood thing.

Safety Controls

If you are concerned about safety I have previously always intended to do this, but never did.

Get a second temp controller set to cut OUT (break the circuit) at say 60.
Or bung a smoke alarm right over the vent. (thinks oooooo does this need a ventilation? Dunno - bigger question for another day)

PS I am 100% sure this will work.

[koomber]

I'm still with Cellar_Rat on this. I liek the more detailed plan he's posted.

I think it is a big risk to run it without a temp controller. Your basically putting it in the lap of the god's as to whether it will work or not. Sure, the door being open might help, but I suspect the temperature will be all over the place.

[Cellar_Rat]

Sorry I have not made this clear then. 1 temp controller minimum. The second one is a safety to shutdown in the event overheating. Door normally closed. I am thinking 'no ventilation required' at the moment, 'coz you will be in it everyday to check fermentation.

[koomber]

Sorry I have not made this clear then. 1 temp controller minimum. The second one is a safety to shutdown in the event overheating. Door normally closed. I am thinking 'no ventilation required' at the moment, 'coz you will be in it everyday to check fermentation.

Ah, I think I wasn't clear (that's what I get for a surreptitious check of the forum at work and refering to two post in one reply) I'm 100% behind you and your proposed system. In fact, that is the system I run (with one TC) and I've had great success with it.

I was linking back to arcam_man's earlier post about leaving the door ajar. I think if you are going to build a temperature controlled cabinet, you are as well going whole hog and making the best temperature controlled cabinet you can afford (which isn't too expensive for a TC and lightbulb on top of an old fridge).

[Richm]

This is very interesting to me as I'm trying to make wine as simply and naturally as possible, and temperature is one of the things that I could control, but what is the ideal temperature for fermenting wine? Should it change for primary and secondary fermentation?

[Cellar_Rat]

15-20 for white - 20 -28 for red.

[arcam_man]

I've now got the fridge

Managed to get a very good Bosch fridge for next to nothing off e-bay. One option I'm thinking of is to use the thermostatic in wine heater I got with the original equipment (and which works well) and putting this in a small container of water inside the fridge in between the demijohns. With the fridge door closed I'm thinking this should provide a gentle warmth inside the well insulated fridge and the thermostat should prevent the inside temperature rising too high. Because the fridge is in such good condition I'm afraid my wife will probably want to use it at times (eg Christmas) as an overflow for our kitchen fridge and therefore I need a system that can be removed easily. I'm not keen on going to the expense of a special controller at this stage.

[Cellar_Rat]

I tried aquarium style heater in a water bath. A few things happen that you need to consider.

• only heats the immersed bit.
• Leaves lime scale rings on your DJ's
• The water evaporates and needs topping up
• The water is a source on infections
• A lot of condensation won't do fridge a lot of good

.

I never found these to be very good quite frankly.

What about a brewmat?