Cider

[SiSandrine]

Hello Reg,

Sorry - this was a bit buried so missed it before.

I had to understand first what GBP liquor was - outside my knowledge but Ginger Beer Plant now understood.

Do you know what the SG of the orignal must was after you added the sugar. From what you provided (and making the assumption that the SG of the apple juice was 1.060) I calculated it would be approximately 1.070. (4.5kg sugar in 25 litres).

So if you ferment that to dry it will be about 10.5% ABV. Check this if you can but if you are making cider and these assumptions are correct I wouldn't add any more sugar.

In an ideal world I think I would separate the must and ferment the two things completely independently. However as you have already started it sounds like GBP will only make it mildly alcoholic so plenty of sugar to go. I would liken this then to fermenting a little on wild yeasts and then adding a cultured yeast starter.

In order to do that I think you will need to get a really strong yeast starter going. I wouldn't use cider yeast but choose a killer strain of yeast that will dominate - Lalvin K1V-1116 or Gervin Varietal E would be my choice.
Get this starter going as per tutorial here: http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=908.
Allow 48 hours though before pitching into your brew as it will have quite a lot of work to do. Theoretically it should swamp your GBP stuff as it would other yeasts but as I haven't heard this tried before who knows?

Also, when you say bottle off some of the brew then I would avoid using ordinary glass bottles. Whilst it doesn't sound like GBP creates a lot of C02 it sounds all a bit hit and miss so avoid creating glass hand-grenades.

Sounds an interesting experiment so let us know how it goes.

[Delmonteman]

Does anyone know if i use finnings on a cloudy one of these if there will still be enough yeast in to make fizz in the bottle...?

I don't normally worry about cloudiness but for this batch i have awkward 'customers'...

[mcblades]

Is the cider cloudy because you used freshly pressed / supermarket cloudy apple juice or is it because you still have yeast in it or both?

I think you will be hard pressed to get rid of all the yeast by fining. However, if you fine without sulphite in a wine then it won't fine, as the yeast is still alive and kicking! What yeast did you use? if you used a decent strain (eg K1v) then it will drop out on it's own in the bottle and if left long enough will compact on the bottom of the bottle. As long as you are careful pouring it then you should be OK.

If you used cloudy apple juice in the first place then you would have needed pectolase in the ferment to have any chance of a clear drink.

[Delmonteman]

It's bog standard supermarket apple juice which was clear but i have added honey too and whilst my meads do eventually clear they take an age...

This batch is just a basic cider with honey added to the ferment but i'm giving some bottles to some lads at work and they are funny about presentation...

I basically want it as clear as possible but fizzy in the bottle too but was worried no yeast left for secindary ferment in the bottle if i use finnings before bottling...

[lockwood1956]

When did you add the honey?

if added at the start and it should clear ok,

but adding honey late can make it problematic in clearing

add some pectolase as well as finings, when it drops clear there will still be enough yeast present for secondary ferment

regards
Bob

[Delmonteman]

Cheers, i'll do the finnings then...

[Leon]

I have cider on the go now, do you de-gas a cider like you do a wine, or not? Not as much for clarity, but CO has tainted some of my earlier wines with an eggy smell, would it do this to my cider?

Thank you kindly.

[mcblades]

CO (CO2) Won't give an eggy smell. Hydrogen sulphide or mercaptoethanol will though. Usually from a lack of (or excess) nutrient addition. Some wines go through an eggy smell stage on their way to finish fermenting. Thrashing the B***s off it will volatalise the sulphides and help to get rid of the smell.

I had a go at turbo cider and as it was supposed to be fizzy didn't degas when I racked into PET bottles for carbonation. My neighbour bought me a book on cider making for my B'day (he works at Mansfields orchards so I guess you can see his reasoning. He previously suggested that we could scrat and press 500 weight of mixed windfall apples (my press holds 16L! and I scrat by hand!!).

think it'll be more than a book required beofre that project takes off!

[Leon]

Um, Scrat?

Would you de-gas a still cider?

[mcblades]

scratting is smashing up the apples before pressing. If you don't break up the apple cell walls then you won't get much juice out of the press. I use a drill with a blade on in a bucket. v.slow and now use the freezer as it is much less messy and gives brilliant results (works for grapes too) but you need a big freezer for lots of apples.

For a still cider I would probably treat it as for an apple wine. i.e. degas, sulphite, sorbate (if not dry) and bottle. As it is lower %alc than wine, keeping may be an issue if the sulphite levels are low. A more experienced cider maker will surely be along to correct my ramblings. (actually, if i get a minute I'll check out the book and let you know what it says about still cyder)

[fatbloke]

scratting is smashing up the apples before pressing. If you don't break up the apple cell walls then you won't get much juice out of the press. I use a drill with a blade on in a bucket. v.slow and now use the freezer as it is much less messy and gives brilliant results (works for grapes too) but you need a big freezer for lots of apples.

For a still cider I would probably treat it as for an apple wine. i.e. degas, sulphite, sorbate (if not dry) and bottle. As it is lower %alc than wine, keeping may be an issue if the sulphite levels are low. A more experienced cider maker will surely be along to correct my ramblings. (actually, if i get a minute I'll check out the book and let you know what it says about still cyder)

Have a look on youtube, there's a good vid that shows the scratting done with the motor section from a garbage disposal until. The apples end up at the consistency of apple sauce, then are pressed in "cheeses" of peanut bags in a press made from a workshop machine press (hydraulic hand powered press).

Seems to work quite well, though still needs to be done outside to prevent too much mess.......

If the cider is degassed, sorbate/sulphite treated etc, then there's always the fall back of a corny keg.........

[SiSandrine]

I saw this and built one of them using an old tumble dryer motor. Works a treat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnI33VOZVFI

[malcmackenzie]

Hello

Can anyone recommend a good supermarket apple juice for cider.

I like mine very apply Weston's organic fizzy being my favorite.

[Cellar_Rat]

If anyone wants to do some experimental cider PM me - you need to live near Peterborough.

[oliver90owner]

Hi CR,

If anyone wants to do some experimental cider PM me - you need to live near Peterborough.

I'm game - as long as it is not in 300 litre Vats!

I am fast running out of space!

Regards, RAB

Edited: oops! PM now sent.