Clover Mead Cloudy?

[Rich]

To use your vacuvin on a demijon, you first need a 'safety bung' the plastic DJ bungs with a valve ontop. Then place a tapered dj bung with a hole in, into your vacuvin, and then press this onto the safety bung, and pump like mad.

That prob makes no sense at all, I'll go downstairs and take some pics...

Rich

Hi Biggles,

I bought one of the Vacuvin pump BUT the little plugs that you get don't seem to fit most of my DJ's necks there just a tiny bit on the small side, so you cant seem to get a seal when you pump, unless there is another way.

Might just have to plump for a Stick.

Cheers Daw added some Pectic enzyme today so will see how it fairs,

Regards Scott....

[fatbloke]

Wow! that's one hell of a lot of effort to get it to clear Scott.

Perhaps I'm just lazy, but I just rack off the sediment into another DJ (with the ubiquitous campden tablet) and then just seal it up and chuck it under the stairs.

It's usually clear in a month or two.

I'm guessing that DAW's idea of finings might do the trick. I don't like the idea of shaking the hell out of wine.................

I was under the impression that oxidation can be hazardous to the wine.

Besides, just leaving it to clear naturally, doesn't that degass it over time as well ? Then once it's bottled you can bang it with a vacuvin then. Last time I tried that, I only had to pump the vacuvin 3 or 3 times and it was done.

The only thing I'm thinking of right now, is that lot's of the replies/advice seem good, but counter intuitive and contradictory to just about everything I've read. I'd better get back amongst the books/websites again.

By now I'd have just chucked it under the stairs to bulk age for between 3 and 6 months.

I'll get me coat

regards

John

[lockwood1956]

By now I'd have just chucked it under the stairs to bulk age for between 3 and 6 months.

And in 6 months it will still need degassing!!!!

[StockeyDAW]

[QUOTE=fatbloke;28734]Wow! that's one hell of a lot of effort to get it to clear Scott.

Perhaps I'm just lazy, but I just rack off the sediment into another DJ (with the ubiquitous campden tablet) and then just seal it up and chuck it under the stairs.Oh my good friend FB are you still going back to the origin of these great wonderful brews "Mead". Sure it works that way but are there not more modern ways that can do it quicker and just as well or better?

It's usually clear in a month or two.and some are still cloudy after 6 months? but it is sure nice if you have the time, patients, facilities and DJ's to handle those long periods of ageing. This is what is called personal preference

I'm guessing that DAW's idea of finings might do the trick. I don't like the idea of shaking the hell out of wine.believe me FB the fining with bentonite and sparkolloid are OTW (out of this world) 10 days + a little in some cases and the mead is clear -- see photos in the Tropical Fruit/Coconut-Spice after alcohol fermentation- this fining works great in the clear wines and also the darker ones; also the combination of Chitosan and Kieselson (both of these combinations have both the positive and negative collecting properties that attach themselves to the opposite charged particles in the young wines-Mead's and with the weight sinks to the bottom) in the the reds work very well ................

I was under the impression that oxidation can be hazardous to the wine.FB you are for sure correct there - limited exposure to air is the way to go at this stage - but you have to consider when you have the adequate Sulphite protection; this helps in that regard but we must be careful with the possibility of oxidation

Besides, just leaving it to clear naturally, doesn't that degass it over time as well ? Then once it's bottled you can bang it with a vacuvin then.I like natural things, I am kind of an environmental nut - sure they will likely clear on ther own over time however once you degas, and I am sure you have done this you will realize how much improvement this little thing does both to the wine and mead ( some mead makers do not use the degas technology but there are many ways to make a mead or wine- it all comes down to what is the best for your own particular requirements Last time I tried that, I only had to pump the vacuvin 3 or 3 times and it was done.yes but were there any residual aromas or flavors due to the period of time without degas or fining?

The only thing I'm thinking of right now, is that lot's of the replies/advice seem good, but counter intuitive and contradictory to just about everything I've read. I'd better get back amongst the books/websites again.FB everything is not written in stone - times are a changing - your methods are changing and you are likeing them - we are not perfect but we learn through what method goes along with our preference - It is your option to choose the path to follow and adopt the procedures that suite you the best. I feel we have to try new things adapt them to our methods and all are a winner then

By now I'd have just chucked it under the stairs to bulk age for between 3 and 6 months.there are better ways that that but that is the way you enjoy it all the best and we all hope it works out for you in the end--- but if you want to change a little please consider some different technologies - they have worked for me - and in no way am I saying they are the best but they suit my methods

Cheers FB - All the best. You have great desires for your mead and they will surely work to your advantage in the end. Daw

[happymondays]

To use your vacuvin on a demijon, you first need a 'safety bung' the plastic DJ bungs with a valve ontop. Then place a tapered dj bung with a hole in, into your vacuvin, and then press this onto the safety bung, and pump like mad.

That prob makes no sense at all, I'll go downstairs and take some pics...

Rich

Hi Rich,

Yes I tried the safety bung too but coudlnt get a seal on that either unless I am not giving it enough effort, I will have another go tonight,

Regards Scott....

I'm guessing that DAW's idea of finings might do the trick. I don't like the idea of shaking the hell out of wine.................

I was under the impression that oxidation can be hazardous to the wine.

I'll get me coat

regards

John

John I did wonder about the oxidation thing and will try the finings if it wont shift in a while,

Scott.....

[fatbloke]

Oh my good friend FB are you still going back to the origin of these great wonderful brews "Mead". Sure it works that way but are there not more modern ways that can do it quicker and just as well or better?

As ever, sound, sensible advice.

and some are still cloudy after 6 months? but it is sure nice if you have the time, patients, facilities and DJ's to handle those long periods of ageing. This is what is called personal preference

It's one of the reasons that I've only made one or two 5 gallon batches, because I've got the polycarbonate "water" bottles to ferment in, but then I need 5 x 1 gallon DJ's for storage, hence only making 1 gallon batches, varying the yeast etc to try to find a method/technique/recipe that I like/likes me

Amazingly, I haven't had anything that hasn't cleared by the time they've been under the stairs for 2 or 3 months - but yes I've tried using finings as well - and I still haven't found anywhere that sells sparkaloid over here (might be looking in the wrong places of course) - I wonder if there's an equivalent that's easily available on the UK market ??

believe me FB the fining with bentonite and sparkolloid are OTW (out of this world) 10 days + a little in some cases and the mead is clear -- see photos in the Tropical Fruit/Coconut-Spice after alcohol fermentation- this fining works great in the clear wines and also the darker ones; also the combination of Chitosan and Kieselson (both of these combinations have both the positive and negative collecting properties that attach themselves to the opposite charged particles in the young wines-Mead's and with the weight sinks to the bottom) in the the reds work very well ................

Hum? yes I've read both yours and other material about the positive/negative thing with some finings. The only one I recognise there is Bentonite (it's also used as a drilling lubricant - which is where I've been in contact with it). I'll have to research the other names again to try to understand them more.

FB you are for sure correct there - limited exposure to air is the way to go at this stage - but you have to consider when you have the adequate Sulphite protection; this helps in that regard but we must be careful with the possibility of oxidation

So how much sulphite would be needed before I could consider shaking as a safe method of degassing ? i.e. with whatever amount might be suggested in a recipe, plus maybe 2 rackings and the ubiquitous 1 campden tablet per gallon. Which might mean a gallon has had 3 campden tablets in total. Is that enough or would I need to find a way of measuring sulphite content to a specific level ?

I like natural things, I am kind of an environmental nut - sure they will likely clear on their own over time however once you degas, and I am sure you have done this you will realize how much improvement this little thing does both to the wine and mead ( some mead makers do not use the degas technology but there are many ways to make a mead or wine- it all comes down to what is the best for your own particular requirements.

When I've degassed before, I've indeed, noticed a change in the flavour, but IMO, not as much as I've expected, having read Bob's thread about it.

yes but were there any residual aromas or flavors due to the period of time without degas or fining?

Not that I'd noticed, but then again, I'm no-ones expert. I'm too lazy to aim for perfection, just whether I like the taste or not. My aim isn't to try to produce something that might be considered "organic", just that I'm so confused by these additional things that can be done - some of which suggest possible improvement of flavour, some that might speed up production, some that........ might do something that I haven't even contemplated.

FB everything is not written in stone - times are a changing - your methods are changing and you are likeing them - we are not perfect but we learn through what method goes along with our preference - It is your option to choose the path to follow and adopt the procedures that suite you the best. I feel we have to try new things adapt them to our methods and all are a winner then

I just run out of ideas as to what else I might do, hence the fall back of "under the stairs" and see what happens at a later stage.

there are better ways that that but that is the way you enjoy it all the best and we all hope it works out for you in the end--- but if you want to change a little please consider some different technologies - they have worked for me - and in no way am I saying they are the best but they suit my methods

No, I don't enjoy it. I'm too impatient. <toys out of pram>I want my mead, but I want it now!</toys out of pram>
I fully appreciate what you're saying DAW, but I'm still finding so many of the different ideas about how "it" should be made, contradictory. For instance, the oxidation thing. Hell I use a 3 metre tube for racking, so that I only get the most minimal splashing for the first quarter pint, then it's a smooth fill from one DJ to another (in the Petroleum world it'd be called "Vapour recovery" ), as I'm that paranoid that it will spoil - in a similar way, that the losses of racking will give me too much air space/ullage space at the top to the DJ that they get topped up with either honey/water or just water and then sealed with a bubbler just in case it wants to "restart".

Cheers FB - All the best. You have great desires for your mead and they will surely work to your advantage in the end. Daw

Ha! maybe I should just be more organised/methodical/deliberate in my methods instead of my usual "hit and miss" technique. Then I might actually start to enjoy my own meads. I like mead, well I think I do. I've enjoyed all the commercial ones I've tasted, but so far, my own efforts have been at best, mediocre.

The only thing I can say I've definitely learned, is that the ageing process does make incredible changes to the mead. If I hadn't understood that, all my efforts to date, would have gone straight down the sink! Cos when it's first off the lees, it's bleeding awful

Ah well, one day I might actually make some that is good from the off.

As long as you and others keep advising, then I can keep reading.

Brilliant advise as ever matey. Much appreciated.

regards

JtFB

[Duffbeer]

Jtfb,
I noted earlier a post regarding the shaking of a d/j and it oxidising the wine ? Wrong!! lengths of time exposed to oxygen causes oxidisation ie airspace in your storage vessel, shaking or stirring your wine to expel co2 will not encourage oxidisation provided you have added camden tablet / sulphite, it will more than likely reduce the risk as it's releasing co2 as you shake it, thus protecting the wine.

[StockeyDAW]

Jtfb,
I noted earlier a post regarding the shaking of a d/j and it oxidising the wine ? Wrong!! lengths of time exposed to oxygen causes oxidisation ie airspace in your storage vessel, shaking or stirring your wine to expel co2 will not encourage oxidisation, it will more than likely reduce the risk as it's releasing co2 as you shake it, thus protecting the wine.

DB that is for sure as long as the one gallon DJ is capped very little air contact.

So how much sulphite would be needed before I could consider shaking as a safe method of degassing ? i.e. with whatever amount might be suggested in a recipe, plus maybe 2 rackings and the ubiquitous 1 campden tablet per gallon. Which might mean a gallon has had 3 campden tablets in total. Is that enough or would I need to find a way of measuring sulphite content to a specific level ?


Here are some quotes concerning sulphite that I have gotten from my reading and have used them successfully: "Mead is much more immune to oxidation than wine" also "honey likes to collect and hang onto the sulphites once it gets a hold of it and therefore the amount of free sulphite released is much less".. We know that many Mead's have lower pH's and because of this it is not easy to protect them with sulphite. I have read and use the recommendations to use around 1/2 the amount of campden for wine ie: the maximum suggested for wine is 4 caplets (200 ppm- 50 ppm each) for an imperial gallon. In my 5 gallon batches that I usually make I usually use 2 caplets crushed and mixed in warm water and sprinkled over the frozen fruit, I use 3 crushed caplets at the fining stage, I use 2 crushed caplets after clearing and just before bulk ageing and I use 3 crushed caplets just before bottling.

I have not had any problems with oxidation and I use the high speed drill with attached mixer in the primary fermenter for 3 to 5 minutes You will notice when you bottle your mead that the pH will be in the area of 2.9-3.3 (approx) and the acid levels will be something like .7% for a dessert type mead through .4% for a traditional - this of course is adjusted to suit your flavor preference.

Cheers Daw

[StockeyDAW]

Attached a photo of myself degassing black currant mead. The high speed does a good job. Cheers Daw