A previous batch - how bizarre!

[fatbloke]

TVM for all the excellent advice (as ever).

Initially it was 2 separate batches - the only difference being the yeast(s).

The "sticking" bit, came to play because they'd both stopped at 1030. Because I was using my usual base recipe (before the recent advice in this, and other threads).

I had it in my head that they should have dropped further, but as they both "seemed" to need a restart (probably more about getting confused with the numbers and forgetting where I'd got too).

So my idiot logic said it would be better to blend and restart. The instructions for that were followed to the letter. Though the apparent failure to restart caused me to think that I'd just take it that I'd have had a sweet mead that might have worked out at about 10 to 12 percent - either way I'd decided I would use it as a test, to see what the result would be with the different acids - flavour-wise.

Hence I was stunned when it appeared to be fermenting again. I don't remember whether I did actually add more honey/water or not (yes I'm well aware I need to get my head round this "record keeping" lark - it's one of my priorities for my next batch).

I can also see that whatever the problem actually was i.e. what I was doing wrong, is definitely one of the ones on the list - but I'm undecided exactly which it might have been - as there's a couple of possible candidates.

Ha! I don't understand quite how I've taken so many steps back, because other batches I've made have turned out fine, without any of the problems/issues I've had recently. Perhaps my "hit 'n miss" approach has been missing more than hitting

As for the mention of MLF, I recalled DAW explained about it when my last batch of "barshack ginger mead with fruit" did something similar, but on a smaller scale. Though that's finished/racked/ageing etc - and still tastes pants! (no I don't like dry meads very much).

I'll be doing various checks tomorrow as I've set aside some time to do them i.e. my heather batch is bubbling like a trooper, so I'll have to check the SG and pH on that, I want to check the gravity on this batch as well - it should be below the 1030 it was, when it seemed to have stuck.

As for Bob's suggestion that the recent day time warmth might have kick started it a bit, well that's probably right on the nail, as it showed the first signs about 3 days ago.

Right - I'm off to write out, 100 times, "I must be more organised with my mead making"

As ever, TVM for the brilliant guidance/pointers etc.

regards

JtFB

[lockwood1956]

Right - I'm off to write out, 100 times, "I must be more organised with my mead making"

John ...you are a star!

[StockeyDAW]

read through this thread with interest...

As I dont know what I am talking about , please bear with me

Would a way out be to add pure/plain water(thus diluting the alcohol level) or would this just cause the wine /mead to be too thin ?

Yes dilution is a solution to the desired SG level of the yeast capability.

he added sugar in the form of honey and water

I did not notice that he had added a honey water solution as top up - he did not say how much? or if he had the starter fermenting before pitching in the stuck ferment? The temperature can effect the fermentation - what was the fermentation temperature at? The liquid yeast has very low alcohol concentration limit as suggested above at 11% how is the liquid yeast supposed to ferment something that is over 17%. Did you use a lot of sulphites another possibility if this was overdone? - 1118 is a yeast that will restart a stuck fermentation? but you sure do have high levels of sugars in there. Anyway seems to be going now -- Check the SG regularly to confirm fermentation is progressing Cheers Daw

[fatbloke]

Yes dilution is a solution to the desired SG level of the yeast capability.

he added sugar in the form of honey and water

I did not notice that he had added a honey water solution as top up - he did not say how much? or if he had the starter fermenting before pitching in the stuck ferment? The temperature can effect the fermentation - what was the fermentation temperature at? The liquid yeast has very low alcohol concentration limit as suggested above at 11% how is the liquid yeast supposed to ferment something that is over 17%. Did you use a lot of sulphites another possibility if this was overdone? - 1118 is a yeast that will restart a stuck fermentation? but you sure do have high levels of sugars in there. Anyway seems to be going now -- Check the SG regularly to confirm fermentation is progressing Cheers Daw

The thing is DAW, is that I can't recall if I had added the two batches (identical except for the yeasts) together and then topped off with water/honey or just water.

I seem to recall that the eventual 12 litre bottle measured 1030 (about the same as I was getting from the 2 X 4.5 litre batches + whatever I'd topped off with).

I just seem to recall being very confused as to why they'd both stopped at about 1030 - I figured out that the sweet mead yeast batch might have actually finished afterwards i.e. I went back with as much info as I could recall.

I think that the main mistake was too higher starting gravity and probably not enough nutrients - that the sweet batch would have ended up with ridiculous amounts of residual sugar, whereas the dry batch didn't have enough nutrients - the "sticking" at a similar level was a bit coincidental.

After I'd mixed the two batches - I tried just adding some nutrient and seeing if anything happened, it didn't. That's when I started on trying to restart the ferment (follow the posted instructions).

It may have been that the whole mix still didn't have enough nutrient - or one of the other suggested reasons.

I just find it amazing that the warm day time temps we've had for the last couple or three days seem to have kicked the ferment off again - I did have a brew belt on the bottle for about a week or so, which is why I'd decided that it could be used as an experiment for tasting what happens with acid additions.

Except that's "gone by the board" now, so I'll finish fermenting it, then once I'm happy it's definitely stopped/finished, I'll rack and taste. Then if it's got any of the medicinal taste that sometimes comes with higher alcohol meads, I'll sorbate, back sweeten and then just leave it to bulk age.

I'm hopeful that there won't be too much in the way of "off flavour" that I understand can be caused by long, slow ferments - which, as far as I can work out, is what this has probably been doing until about 3 days ago.

Does that make sense ?

regards

JtFB

[Mamgiowl]

[QUOTE=fatbloke;31833]The thing is DAW, is that I can't recall if I had added the two batches (identical except for the yeasts) together and then topped off with water/honey or just water.


You are taking detailed notes now, John?

As you've found, not doing so leads to confusion, particularly when things go wrong, but also if you produce a mead that is A1 special, notes will help you replicate it.

[Hippie]

Also, you have no excuse for not taking good notes, as there is a winemaking log sheet here you can print out and use. Notes are the most important tool to your ongoing winemaking efforts. Seriously.

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/downloads/Blank-wine-log.pdf

[StockeyDAW]

[QUOTE=fatbloke;31833]The thing is DAW, is that I can't recall if I had added the two batches (identical except for the yeasts) together and then topped off with water/honey or just water.

I seem to recall that the eventual 12 litre bottle measured 1030 (about the same as I was getting from the 2 X 4.5 litre batches + whatever I'd topped off with).

I just seem to recall being very confused as to why they'd both stopped at about 1030 - I figured out that the sweet mead yeast batch might have actually finished afterwards i.e. I went back with as much info as I could recall.

I think that the main mistake was too higher starting gravity and probably not enough nutrients - that the sweet batch would have ended up with ridiculous amounts of residual sugar, whereas the dry batch didn't have enough nutrients - the "sticking" at a similar level was a bit coincidental.I agree very much with this comment. The sweet mead yeast is great for a low alcohol residual sweetness.

After I'd mixed the two batches - I tried just adding some nutrient and seeing if anything happened, it didn't. That's when I started on trying to restart the ferment (follow the posted instructions).

It may have been that the whole mix still didn't have enough nutrient - or one of the other suggested reasons.the nutrient addition is very necessary in the making of mead. I use the nutrient before the start of fermentation and also a boost of nutrient after approximately day 4 after the fermentation starts. This boost strengthens the overall yeas numbers and prepares the must for the long slower fermentation process during the secondary fermentation process.

I just find it amazing that the warm day time temps we've had for the last couple or three days seem to have kicked the ferment off again - I did have a brew belt on the bottle for about a week or so, which is why I'd decided that it could be used as an experiment for tasting what happens with acid additions. I am not sure what temperature you have in the fermentation area - you have other batches that are fermenting there? I believe even with the 1118 yeast and it being introduced into that high residual sweetness environment that it was shocked and took a while to recover and adjust to what it had to do? SG measurements important now to confirm.

Except that's "gone by the board" now, so I'll finish fermenting it, then once I'm happy it's definitely stopped/finished, I'll rack and taste. Then if it's got any of the medicinal taste that sometimes comes with higher alcohol Mead's, I'll sorbate, back sweeten and then just leave it to bulk age.

I'm hopeful that there won't be too much in the way of "off flavour" that I understand can be caused by long, slow ferments - which, as far as I can work out, is what this has probably been doing until about 3 days ago.FB I hope that it does not happen but the slow fermentation and stuck fermentation is one of the problems that could effect this batch - you may end up with off flavors and aromas. Time will tell.

Does that make sense ? Carry on FB it makes sense. The questions in this post make us happy to try and assist. Mami and Hippies suggestions will assist you also. Cheers man. Lets make the road ahead a learning process for all. Daw

[fatbloke]

An update.

Well, I've had a reasonably productive day.

A visit to the local HBS for a few bits and pieces, a visit to Middle Farm and a bit of checking/testing.

The test of this "mixed" batch has proved to me that it's definitely still fermenting - the gravity reading I've just got from it is now 1015, or a drop of 15 in 3 days, so apart from the fact that it's foaming some now, so I need to keep a close eye on it (it's only bubbled out of the airlock once so far), at least it's heading in the right direction.

Which is excellent.

regards

JtFB

[StockeyDAW]

[QUOTE=fatbloke;31863]Well, I've had a reasonably productive day.

A visit to the local HBS for a few bits and pieces, a visit to Middle Farm and a bit of checking/testing.

The test of this "mixed" batch has proved to me that it's definitely still fermenting - the gravity reading I've just got from it is now 1015, or a drop of 15 in 3 days, so apart from the fact that it's foaming some now, so I need to keep a close eye on it (it's only bubbled out of the airlock once so far), at least it's heading in the right direction.

Which is excellent.

great news - You will notice that it is the nutrient or energizer addition and also the 1118 yeast that will result in some foaming. Make sure that it does not plug the air lock - should settle down in a day or two. Cheers Daw