Thread for questions and discussion on new winemaker series

[lockwood1956]

Wasnt sure where to post this, and didn't want to start a new thread.... but I just had to tell someone.

I started Wine number 1 today
The SG is 1.084

I wanted to start 2 DJ's of wine 1, but I didnt have enough apple juice .

So for the second one I used pineapple juice instead, and I reduced the sugar to 500grams... the SG is 1.076.

Will let you all know how it goes
Carole


PS... Bob .... Cracking instructions.... Thanks

YAY!

another one on underway......


keep us posted

[Jekteir]

P.S. Have been rereading lockwood's article on finishing, and now have been reminded what the use of sorbate is I'm not sure if I'll use it, though, since I might keep some of this wine for a fair bit before it gets drunk.

And actually, I'm not sure my 'demijohn' is a 'real' demijohn. It's more like a 5gal plastic barrel, and the bored cap is plastic, bored to fit a bung (which itself is bored for an airlock).

Jek

[lockwood1956]

Yes I would use your plastic fermenter for fermenting, but not for bulk ageing, and you don't need sorbate unless you plan to sweeten the wine.

But you do need to make sure your sulphite levels are good. (1 campden tablet or 5ml of 10% sulphite solution per gallon)

hope this helps
regards
Bob

[Jekteir]

It seems that I should sulphite before degassing (to protect from oxygen exposure), and also sulphite before sweetening. Should I degas and sweeten in the same step, then? I already added campden tabs before I began the initial ferment, and don't have any SO2-testing gear, and don't want to end up with too much!

I probably will want to sweeten the wine a little -- so does this mean I simply do need sorbate, even with the campden tabs?

[StockeyDAW]

I think it's stopped at 0.996 now.



Well, I'm not sure there's that much in the way of 'lees', but I guess there will be a bit of yeast residue etc. I strained it when racking to the secondary so it's pretty clean. There's not even much foam at all. But I'll rack it anyway. It does not take much to give off flavors if left on the dead lees for to long



You mentioned that racking to the primary would help with degassing. Do you mean, just in terms of exposure to air? Should I let the wine fall and hit the bottom of the primary, so that more CO2 gets released? Yes, if you use a high speed drill with a mixer on the end like I do it is a lot easier to mix with a large opening and also the CO2 is able to escape easier. Also however, it is in contact with more air and oxidation is something we have to be careful with. For degassing check here on the forum there is excellent information on the degassing process and all the various kinds

What's the difference between a demijohn and a carboy? Are they interchangeable? My wine's currently in the secondary (5gal demijohn with bored top cap, no tap) and my primary's a 5gal bucket with airtight lid (no bore, no tap). I believe they are one in the same thing you call them DJ's over there; our DJ's here are large thin walled glass containers with the protective carrying case (large size). We use the glass carboys more easier to handle. The 1 gallon DJ's here are usually called jugs.
And I do all of this before I worry about adjusting the taste? i.e. I can degas, fine, rack, age, and then adjust taste with acid and maybe more juice?



That's fine, as long as there's no risk of my wine going bad/me missing my opportunity to get the taste right in the meantime! But, if I understand you correctly, I can correct the taste at any time after sulphiting, degassing, fining and racking, days or weeks into the future? You will be able to manage the sweetness and adding acids later before bottling. As we move along into more advanced process we will come to know the importance of correct pH and acidity prior to starting the fermentation process - for acidity in taste it is the taste that rules.



Can you recommend one of these from online? I've been buying from art-of-brewing.co.uk and they don't seem to stock one. See attached photo and link



One thing I don't get -- what does sorbate do? If sulphites protect from bacteria, and finings clear the wine...what exactly is 'stabilising' other than those two things? Or does sorbate just 'support the process'? Sorbate is to stabilize the young wine mead before bottling and to prevent renewed yeast activity in sugar still present in the young wine or mead.

I have just tried a bit of the wine (first taste since it hit 0.996) and it's much less sweet now, naturally, and also a little bitter. I shook all of the CO2 out of my sample, and that improved the bitterness, but I think it's still a little bland, possibly undersweet and even slightly watery. Would your diagnosis be (after rack, degas, fine, rack, stabilise) sweeten with juice and add acid to taste? yes but the acid and sweetening can wait until just before bottling

Which acid(s) would just suggest? -- My wine is mainly from supermarket pressed red grape juice but also was made with a straining bag of red eating grapes, cherries, blueberries, and a few blackberries. wow you have got a real blend there - it is had to say what your taste buds preference is -- I use tartaric nearly always and some citric - you will have to make that decision

On the upside, the wine does seem to be pretty potent, so that sugar has been put to good use! Thanks a lot for all this help -- hopefully I'm nearing the finish line! It takes a length of time for wine to age - in your case with all the blending I would say as much as 6 months in a dark cool location - bulk ageing then bottle ageing for a further 6 months --only an estimate - try occasionally after a few months bottling ageing - if you like it then you will know what to do.. The finish line does not seem to end quickly in this hobby always something new to try and learn!

Jek

Cheers Daw -- hope this helps

[lockwood1956]

Great answers Daw

cheers
bob

[Jekteir]

Thanks a lot Daw for all the advice -- it's really helpful.

I think I'll:

-- rack it as non-splashingly as I can now (and sneak another sample)
-- check SG again tomorrow, and, assuming it's stable:
-- sulphite tomorrow, wait 30 mins; degas with drill and an implement in the primary bucket; rack back to the secondary and cover again.
-- leave for 10 days, maybe racking once or twice
-- if it's not clear, fine it
-- rack again
-- sulphite and stabilise with sorbate, then sweeten and acidify to taste
-- bulk age for some period of time (I'm impatient so I doubt I'll manage 6 months!)
-- rack to bottles, enjoy some, age some!

Sound right? Thanks again,

Jek

[StockeyDAW]

Thanks a lot Daw for all the advice -- it's really helpful.

I think I'll:

-- rack it as non-splashingly as I can now (and sneak another sample)
-- check SG again tomorrow, and, assuming it's stable:
-- sulphite tomorrow, wait 30 mins; degas with drill and an implement in the primary bucket; rack back to the secondary and cover again.
-- leave for 10 days, maybe racking once or twice
-- if it's not clear, fine it
-- rack again
-- sulphite and stabilise with sorbate, then sweeten and acidify to taste
-- bulk age for some period of time (I'm impatient so I doubt I'll manage 6 months!)
-- rack to bottles, enjoy some, age some!

Sound right? Thanks again,

Jek

Jek -- You have got it there.. No need to fine more than once. You can go to filtration if you like Daw Cheers

[StockeyDAW]

Great answers Daw

cheers
bob

Thank you Bob -- I have one of the best leader trainers in yourself Daw.

[spritzer]

YAY!

another one on underway......


keep us posted

Well, the apple one is foaming and blooooooping
The pineapple one is not foaming yet... but it is mini blooping.
But its not even 24 hrs yet, so thats ok.

Something is kindly puzzling me though

Should I have added pectolase to the pineapple one ??
Not sure why I have this thought in my head... And thought I had better ask, just to dispel my concerns.
Maybe I am just trying to over complicate things

Thanks
Carole

[Mamgiowl]

Yes. While pineapple is lowish in pectin you should make a habit of adding it as a matter of course to all your fruit wines. It saves a lot of heartache at the end of fermentation.

[TheBigEasy]

I guess everyone asks but as I cannot find a full answer...
Do I rinse my demijohn after I have "sanitised" it with the sulphite solution?

I am using the 50g to 500ml ratio and swilling it round my demijohn two or three times, with two or three minutes between each swill.
Do I then rinse with plain water, or just drain the demijohn well.

Cheers
Jon L.

[lockwood1956]

If you are about to start a new wine, then turn it upside down and let it drain, but no need to rinse...


If it is going to be cleaned and then stored afterwards, then place a little of the solution in it and put in a bung or airlock, if you follow this routine, then all that is required before use is that you drain it, and use it.

[TheBigEasy]

This is where it all gets confusing.....

In your "getting it all clean" post you say
"I keep some in a spray bottle for sanitising equipment before use, spoons hydrometers etc, spray with sulphite, rinse and go....but 5 Min's contact time with this solution and things are sanitised"

So why do you rinse spoons and stuff but not demijohns?

[lockwood1956]

Thats easy, I rinse them because I want to use them immediately afer sanitising, and am not wanting to add any more sulphite to the must or wine.

You could just as easily leave the spoons utensils etc to drip dry before use.

So rinsing or leaving to drip dry ....either option works.

sorry didnt make that clear