Thread for questions and discussion on new winemaker series

[jayv]

Thanks Pete. I'll wait until wine no.1 stops bubbling.

Is the cider sensitive to oxidation? I'm tempted to siphon off a litre or two and put in the fridge. It's long weekend here and I'd love a drink! Just wondering if the extra air in the jerrycan will cause it to oxidise.

[goldseal]

Personally I'd wait until it stops bubbling.

Some recipes and some kits advocate racking at an SG of around 1.010. This is normally to leave behind any gross lees (sediment) which would have fallen to the bottom by this point. Wine No.1 is an all-juice recipe, so it doesn't produce much lees. It can be fermented to dry without racking.

Sometimes fermentation will have finished, and the wine will start degassing itself, causing airlock activity. Given the rate your airlock is going, I would guess that fermentation is still going.

Provided the fermenter is properly topped-up and you don't keep opening the cap (which lets air in) the wine should be quite safe even if fermentation has ceased.

Fermentation times can vary wildly. I have had a wine ferment out in 4 days, and a Wine No.1 which took nearly 3 months. There are so many variables, so treat any timings as a rough guide only.

That hydrometer is really important. Do your best to get hold of one asap .

[jayv]

Hi,
My wine no.1 has been going for about 13 days. I don't have a hydrometer yet, so can't check the SG. Should I go ahead and rack it or should I wait for it to stop bubbling? It's still bubbling at a rate of about 1 bubble every 5 seconds. Also, as I don't have any camden tablets or sulphite is there anything else I can use or anything I can do to stop the wine oxidising too much?

The turbo cider I put down has been going for about 10 days. I'm getting about 1 big bubble every 1 min. Should I go ahead and bottle it or wait a bit longer?

Thanks!

[lockwood1956]

Careful of stirring after addirtions, it can cause a volcanic effect, and always add stuff with the DJ in the sink (just in case)

and fear not about asking questions, we dont mind (I promise we will tell you if we get fed up)

regards
Bob

[Clank007]

Hi,
One last question if I may then I'll promise I'll leave you be.
I'm just about to add the apple juice - do I give the must another good stir once added or should I simply pour it in via the funnel and leave it?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions it's appreciated.
Simon.

[lockwood1956]

Either would be fine...

If I'm topping up a little (250ml or less) I use water, if its more than that I use grape juice.

hope that helps

regards

bob

[Clank007]

While fermentation is active there are no oxidation worries as the wine is protected by the CO2 fermentation produces....top up when the foaming eases a tad

regardsd
Bob

Hi Bob, thanks for replying.
Would you recommend topping up with water or grape juice? Or a combination of both?
Simon

[lockwood1956]

While fermentation is active there are no oxidation worries as the wine is protected by the CO2 fermentation produces....top up when the foaming eases a tad

regardsd
Bob

[Clank007]

When should I top up?

Hi,
I'm 2 days into two batches of wine number one.
They are both fermenting away vigorously at the mo. However both are about 2 inches in depth away from the small shoulder of their demijohns. On top of the must is also about 2cm of thick froth.

In Mr Lockwood's tutorial he tops up with water about now - should I do the same? I'm just a tad concerned about the froth and the possible oxidisation that might occur when I take the airlocks out to do so.
Simon

PS I was in Wilkinsons at the homebrew section on Sunday and 3 people were stood there trying to work out what equipment to buy etc. I gave them this website address and they went away happy, so hopefully a few new members will join soon!

[lockwood1956]

Joes ancient orange mead?

uses bread yeast, tastes pretty good

regards
bob

[jayv]

Thanks for all the advice. Wine #1 seems fine. It's fizzing away with the odd bubble now and again. I've also just put down 20L of turbo cider in a jerry-can which is bubbling away nicely. Reused some yeast from an existing ferment, as suggested. This should stop me drinking the wine to early. Hmm, what next?

[lockwood1956]

Sorry,

just noticed, you dont have a hydrometer yet.....

as lonng as its fizzing at the surface you are good

you might want to check out Brouwland

http://www.brouwland.com

I use them a lot, shipping is reasonable, and quick and they carry just about everything. (no wine kits)

[lockwood1956]

Fizzing - yes, but not very much given that it's been down over 2 days.
No air leaks.

Some yeasts just fizz at the surface with not much foam....as long as your SG is dropping all is well, airlock activity isnt a reliable sign (a guide only)

I think lack of oxygen is the problem. When I'm fermenting in the PET bottles, I'd been giving them a good shake after I put the yeast in.

The yeasties only need the oxugen for the "lag" phase, this is where the colony multiplies to a good size, after that oxygen is not required, so give it a good shake/stir wat the beginning and all will be well. Making a yeast starter removes this the need fopr this lag phase in the fermenter as they are all grown and ready to go.

A couple of other questions while I have you:
1. To make a yeast starter, can I use lemon and/or lime juice instead of citric acid?

yup

2. When making the starter, What are the best substitutes for the nutrient? Marmite (how much?), vitamin B1 tablets, anything else?

Marmite works, but it is very very strong tasting, would you want that in your wine? remember about 1/2 of people hate marmite a good yeast nutrient will contain vitamin B1 and all the mineral salts etc required, it is wothwhile trying to track some down. If buying mail order, go for somethng like minavit ultra from Brouwland, you only need 1/2 tsp per gallon, so you get extra gallons from the shipping fee (if that makes sense)

3. I only have a very small amount of yeast (1/4 teaspoon). I wish I'd read the tutorial on yeast starters sooner! Can I just siphon off a glass from a batch that is under way (replace with juice/water) and pitch it into a new batch instead of using rehydrated yeast?

you can remove yeast from an active ferment and re-use, but i wouldnt do it multiple times, as it can mutate

4. Sanitising - I don't have any sodium metabisulphite yet. Is it safe enough to use stuff straight out of the dishwasher or do I also need to also use a mild bleach solution followed by lots of rinsing?

stuff from the dishwasher will be clean, but not sanitised. If using bleach, go for baby bottle sterilising stuff, its really cheap, and isnt scented, and is available in all supermarkets.

hope that helps

regards
Bob

[jayv]

Thanks for the quick response. Hopefully the package from the mother-in-law arrives soon so that I at least have the basics. I don't even have a hydrometer at the moment . I'll try a starter with the remaining yeast. Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks

[goldseal]

23 - 24c is good - the wine should ferment well. Hopefully stirring will do the trick. If in doubt, check the wine's current SG with your hydrometer and let us know what the reading is.

I can give my opinion on a couple of your questions:

1. Yes. The rule of thumb is that the juice of a lemon is equivalent to 1tsp of Citric acid you buy from the Homebrew shop, and you'd normally use about 1/8tsp in the starter.

2. If you have vitamin B1 tablets, that'll help. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will be along in a bit. A complementary approach is to use yeast which has low nutrient needs, and ingredients which provide nutrients. Try to get hold of Lalvin K1V-1116 yeast (Gervin Varietal 'E' is the same). That will ferment just about anything. Ingredients such as grape juice and apple juice (i.e. Wine No.1 ingredients) will provide much of the nutrient requirements.

3. Make a yeast starter if you can. If it is too late (i.e. you have put all your yeast into your wine), you can do as you say - remove, say, 250ml of wine (once it is fermenting strongly), put it in a sanitised wine bottle. After a couple of days you can add more juice/water/sugar as you say. When you want to make another batch of wine, use 1/2 to 3/4 of your stater, then top it up again. Pay particular attention to the Yeast Starter tutorial though, especially regarding the sugar content of the starter. Done correctly, you can make that yeast last a few months.

4. I can't comment about dishwashers - I have never tried that method. Mild bleach will work, but it is tenacious stuff - like you said, lots of rinsing, then rinse some more . You can then conserve the precious Meta for stabilisation.

It does sound like you are in a 'challenging' situation, with limited resources. I'm sure others will be along soon to give you more advice.

Good luck