Thread for questions and discussion on new winemaker series

[goldseal]

A pleasure

[owlwithoutfeathers]

Hi Guys,

Forgive me if this is not the right area to post my question to, but here goes.

I've just gone and made 2x 1 gallon wine number ones (first time yey!) and followed the recipe to the letter.

x1 gallon with 1 litre morrisons own pure apple juice (and x1 litre of white grape juice from morrisons "The Best" range)

x1 gallon with 1 litre morrisons own pure orange juice (smooth, from concentrate and x1 litre WGJ from morrisons "The Best" range).

All the usual recipe rules followed; including adding 700g of sugar . . .

So, testing SG before pitching the yeast (using Gervin D in both) i find that the SG of the Orange WN1 is 1082 - more or less spot on to the desired 1080, right? However, the SG of the Apple WN1 is 1091. Is this too high? Will i get a "hot" wine at the end?

Im guessing that there are more fermentable sugars in the Apple juice than the Orange Juice. Looking on the back of the pack confirms this: Orange 9.1g of sugar per 100ml; Apple 10.4g per 100ml. So in effect, there is 13g of sugar in solution more in the Apple WN1 than in the Orange WN1. Would this really lift the SG to 1091 as opposed to 1082?

Its all an experiment - and im really looking forward to the end result!

Thanks for the recipe.

Owl.

[owlwithoutfeathers]

Addendum (?)

I'd ran out of my normal "bubbler" type airlocks, so i used an old boots cylindrical airlock (as per the picture supplied by Grumpysod in Celler Rats Yeast trials posting):

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5172&highlight=airlock

I've not used one of these cylindrical ones before. Do i add water to it? Will the top bit not blow off and oxydise my young fermenting wine?

I've added a little bit of sanitised water to the main sectionand then carefully placed the top bit over it to provide some sort of air barrier . . .



Owl.

[goldseal]

That doesn't sound enough of a difference in sugar to make that much difference in SG.

Are you sure both are mixed very thoroughly? You can sometimes get false SG readings if not.

Those airlocks are OK to use. The top bit doesn't seal the airlock. You should add a few ml of water to the main bit, making sure the bottom rim of the top bit sits below that level.

[owlwithoutfeathers]

Hi there - thanks for the reply.

I did give both a damn good thrashing in the demijohn before taking the SG readings and pitching the yeasties. Like you said, 13g isnt really that much of a difference is it?

Im confident that the Gervin D yeast will munch up the sugars, i just dont want a "hot" wine number one. Is SG 1091 still tolerable? Or will this need more than the 4-5 weeks time to "smooth" out? Should i consider using the SG1091 wine as a mixer for another Apple WN1 with less SG - say 1070?

Thanks. And thanks for the reply on the airlock!

Its about 3 three hours in and all is going good!

[goldseal]

1.091 will probably give you 13 - 13.5%, which would be at the very upper range for Wine No.1. Making a lower alc WN1 would work.

If you have the ingredients and DJ to hand, you could make up another WN1 to around 1.070 as you said (EDIT: minus yeast), then basically mix the two now, 50/50. If it has been going a few hours or even a day, you have basically made a giant yeast starter, so it should be OK to mix 50/50 with another gallon of must. If you leave it a day, you should have enough of a yeast colony to run both DJs easily.

[owlwithoutfeathers]

Hmmm; i feel an "emergency bottling session" coming on tomorrow then, as i'm clean out of demi's!

If i was to leave it, any advice on blending with a completed, weeker WN1? Or is this crossing-the-streams a-la Ghostbusters?

Owl.

[owlwithoutfeathers]

So,

Emergency bottling session over i've liberated a demijohn.

Stuck to the same recipee - Morrisons "The Best" White Grape Juice x1 litre, Morrisons own brand Apple juice from concentrate, 1 tsp citric acid, 1 tsp yeast nutrient, water.

Now then. The sugar.

I'm hoping to blend the original apple WN1 that had a SG of 1091 to this apple WN1 upon completion of fermentiation to produce something less "hot".

Accoriong to Jack Kellers (excellent) web site, (where there's a section on blending) if i have a "base" wine of 10 % ABV and add that to a "fortifier" wine of 13 % ABV (both 1 gallon volumes) his majic computer tells me i will get an adjusted alcohol of 11.5% ABV.

All good so far.

So, the "Base" apple WN1 i have made to SG 1060 theoretically giving me 10% ABV if it ferments out to .990

The "fortifier" apple WN1 started at SG 1091. So thats where im getting the rough equation of 13% ABV.

I added sugar to the Base Apple WN1 in stages, allowing for settiling time (introduced each batch of sugar dissolved in wam water); i eventually stopped at 400g of sugar to get SG 1060 on the nose.

I've now pitched the yeast from the original apple WN1 and its slowly bubbling away under airlock. Fingers crossed. Its not a meaty ferment so far; certainly not compared to the original applce WN1 that went off like an exocet with 2-3 hours. This is more like driving miss daisy . . . Perhaps because of the sugar(less) environment? Then again, ive had beers that have started around SG1055-1060 that have locked on straight away . . .

Fingers crossed.

Owl.

[lockwood1956]

Accoriong to Jack Kellers (excellent) web site, (where there's a section on blending) if i have a "base" wine of 10 % ABV and add that to a "fortifier" wine of 13 % ABV (both 1 gallon volumes) his majic computer tells me i will get an adjusted alcohol of 11.5% ABV.

I love Jacks site (he is a member here, a great guy...I met him in 2006)

but you could also have used this:

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/downloads/calculator.htm

regards
Bob

[owlwithoutfeathers]

Very nice; although a little too yellow for my liking, if you get my (blinded) drift?



Owl.

[lockwood1956]

its so you can find it in the dark

regards
Bob

[Leon]

Phew! I've got thread sweats, what an effort reading all that was. It was like when, in the film Paul, he zaps all his knowledge straight into people's brains, and they generally collapse; or the episode of Doctor Who where he headbuts his experiences into his landlord's head. But it was a hell of a lot of knowledge through other people's trials and errors. Naturally some questions:

Is there a detrimental effect to having a high starting SG, my second wine number one was 1090?

If you have a lot of sediment after putting finings in, those often maligned youngs, and its taking a while to clear, would you rack it off the sediment and leave longer? Rack and try a different brand of finings, I have the oft praised Kwik Clear finings? Or just leave it a bit longer?

If I wanted to experiment with higher amounts of fruit juice in the first two wines, would I gauge the amount of sugar to alter it to using the SG?

The wine number two tutorial seems to end a bit sudden, I needed a TA DA! moment, once you've back sweetened, is it done, or should it be left? Or is it to thirst's discretion?

I'm making a ginger wine from a book, well I'm making it from ginger and sugar and stuff, but the recipie was in a book. Can I add experimental spices at the bottling stage, will itinfuse? Would honey infuse or just sit at the bottom and sulk?

For that matter, the aging process takes place after we have stabalised, right? So if fermentation has stopped, what's happening during the aging process?

I keep going back to my first wine number one and glaring at it to clear it quicker, is this a recognised method?

Does successful wine making hinge on having a beard?

If you could just answer a fraction of my questions I would be awfully grateful.

Oh I've just rememberd the question I logged on to ask. My wine number three, when it was fermenting I dropped the ball, well the hydrometer, and didn't rack it off the lees until it was 1008, not the ideal 1020, what detrimental effects could come from this?

Diolch yn fawr.

[Duffbeer]

Not a great detriment at 1.090, however any higher and you will unbalance the wine and it will generate an alcohol burn.

If it's fine lees(sediment) then I generally wait for it to clear, up to a week or so, if not clear you need to be questioning why ie pectin haze, co2 etc.

Experimenting is good, but the addition of more fruit will require sugar adjustment and will not allways result in a better wine, often less is best.

Yes after sweetening wine #2 is good to go, though a few weeks rest will do it wonders.

Experimenting again is good, honey is fermentable and a good addition, however be careful of too strong flavours and expect to have the odd failure from time to time.

During the aging process there are many biological changes going on which mold the wine ie tannins smooth, acid often mellows etc.

Glaring might make you feel better, but a good dose of patience helps.

Yes all successful winemakers have beards look at Northern winer & Koomber.

Racking at 1.008 will cause no specific problems, however allowing it to go much lower without transfering to secondary under airlock puts your must at risk of oxidation.

[Leon]

Thank you kindly, and you'd think I'd have no more questions wouldn't you? just the one. My second wine number 2 has been bang on 1000 sg for the last two days, seems a little high, not the 990 in the tutorial. Discuss.

I have a wine book from which I have aquired a recipie for Damson wine and some local trees from which I have aquired Damsons; see where I'm going with this? The recipie involves raisins for vinosity, which I'm pretty sure isn't a word, not of the tutorials have mentioned raisins or made up their own words, is that simply because the tutorial wines are easy and don't have much vinosity?

How much fun is squishing fruit. Mmmm, felt like.... uh, never mind,

Diolch.

[lockwood1956]

Vinosity is indeed a word...meaning vinous or wine-like


raisins i would avoid, if you are adding anything..... add sultanas, they are lighter in style, and wont impart a sherry flaviour...which is fine in sherry but not in damson wine.


a wine No 1 with damsons added at SG around 1.010 will produce a nice rose

regards
bob (from departure lounge of Atlanta airport)