Grape Concentrate or Kit Concentrate?

[kerosine]

Hi all

I am in the process of working out what I am going to do with all the blackberries I am going to pick this year

Any hoo I have a recipe for a 5Gallon Blackberry that uses 1 litre of Red Grape Concentrate.

Now being the thrifty young Kerosine that I am I thought it might be more cost effective to buy a £9 Kit of say Shiraz/Merlot/Zin etc

Would this work in adding Vinosity?

Also does anyone know the ratio of concentrate versus water required to make wine just from concentrate? - this will halp me understund if the 1.5 litre of concentrate that comes in the kit will be sufficient.

Ta

[Duffbeer]

Yes Russ, I have used the concentrate from cheap kit's and it works fine.
What size kit is the 1.5 ltr concentrate for ? if it's for a 23 ltr kit then it will be fine, the blackberries will add extra flavour and body. Bear in mind though if it's a cheap kit you will need sugar additions.

[kerosine]

I was going to use predominantly Blackberries an sugar don't know quantities as I have not got the recipe with me - I think it was around 10Kg with 4Kgt of sugar plus the 1.5 concentrate from a 4.5 kit

hence my question about the ratio of water to concentrate - I am trying to work out if it will be enough

[Duffbeer]

Well the addition of water to the 4.5 ltr kit would be 3 ltrs, to give 4.5 ltrs of good vinous wine. Don't quote me on this but I believe 1 ltr of concentrate is equivalent to 1lb of sugar in the must, so take that into account along with the sugars in the blackberries before adding your sugar.
7.5 ltrs of your suggested concentrate would give 23 ltrs of wine worked out at the same ratio, but that's a hefty amount of blackberries too.
My guess would be to add the 1.5 ltrs of concentrate to the 10 kilo of blackberries would make a good wine with adequate body and vinosity, or increase the concentrate and reduce the blackberries.

[kerosine]

My sentiments exactly Karl

just wanting validation on my proposed approach

Its cheaper buying a kit than buying 1.5 litre of concentrate too!!!

[Duffbeer]

I will say too Russ, the Beaverdale Barolo 4.5 ltr kit would be a good one to add, try a little heavy toast french oak too...yum

[NorthernWiner]

When a recipe calls for "Red Grape Concentrate", this is what I've always used...

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID=4446

It's 68 Brix and comes in a half-litre size. The tinned concentrates are also usually 68 Brix - or at least they are over here. These come in a (near) 1.5 litre size, and a lot of different flavors.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/site_search.aspx?SearchStr=sun%20country

I would think there would be a lot of variance in the sugar levels between different kits.

[Duffbeer]

I would think there would be a lot of variance in the sugar levels between different kits.

The Barolo kit is a no added sugar kit, so with my less than average maths reckon the equivilant of about 2 lb of sugar in the concentrate.
Actually Steve you've now got me thinking the tinned hbs style concentrate may be a stronger concentrate than the kit's, hmmm food for thought.

[NorthernWiner]

I did some Googling about to see if I could determine the Brix level in the Beaverdale concentrate, but no luck.

We can make an assumption, though. If there is 1.5 litres of concentrate and it's reconstituted to 4.5 liters, that would indicate that it's concentrated to 1/3 of the original strength. If the original strength is 22-23 brix, then the concentrate should be close enough to 68 brix to make it a good substitute.

See? Your math ain't so bad.

[Richard S]

Hmmmmm, how about using a Youngs (or similar) blackberry kit as concentrate?

Edit - These kits require the addition of sugar.

[kerosine]

you dudes have answered my questions.

makes you wonder why folk buy the red grape concentrate when you can buy a kit and get a specific type of grape?

I am going to be putting a few batche son so ill report my findings

[rjb222]

Use a kit from a quality manufacture I have customers that do this for white grape concentrate as well they can develop the taste profile to suit them this way.I have one fellow that comes in for Liebfraumilch he claims that he really likes this in a raspberry wine.He also adds no sugar he uses the concentrate and a hydrometer to balance the sugar content of his fruit wine.