sugar in wine making

[rantan]

i have read in various beer forums that ordinary sugar should not be used as it can create unwanted flavours, you should use brewing sugar, but i have never read of this in wine making, so do we want these flavours?

i have 1Kg of dark spray malt left over from stout brewing (gave that up coz of too many bathroom trips during night) any suggestions of how i can use it in wine making?

[Duffbeer]

Well that may be the opinion of some, maybe older books, or hbs on the sell etc, I have allways used sugar in all of my beermaking and never had a problem.
The dark spray malt is not going to be much use in wine, but may be of use in a sherry of some sort.

[NorthernWiner]

For winemaking purposes, sugar is sugar.

[fatbloke]

For winemaking purposes, sugar is sugar.

Don't forget though Steve, that there are those from the "school of thought" who prefer to use "brewing sugar" a.k.a. dextrose a.k.a. glucose - because it's one of the purest forms of sugar (a monosaccharide and some other stuff I was reading).

The same "s.o.t" being that some also say about making sure that if you do use sugar, making sure it's cane sugar not beet sugar.

I can't really say what difference any of that might make, other than you use more glucose than normal sugar because it's only 70% as sweet as table sugar.

Not to confuse the issue though....

regards

JtFB

p.s. couldn't "spray malt" be used in a braggott ???

[Hippie]

I have always heard (and read somewhere once) that regular sucrose must be broken down by the yeast and changed to dextrose (corn sugar ?) which is simpler and easier to turn into alcohol and CO2. I agree the yeast probably could care less what type of sugar they get as long as it is fermentable.

[NorthernWiner]

Don't forget though Steve, that there are those from the "school of thought" who prefer to use "brewing sugar" a.k.a. dextrose a.k.a. glucose - because it's one of the purest forms of sugar (a monosaccharide and some other stuff I was reading).

I maintain that sugar is sugar. Yeast will happily metabolize it, no matter the form - monosaccharides, polysaccharides, glucose, or sucrose. Regardless of the form that goes into the front end, they will spew alcohol out the back end. Well, if they had a back end, that is.

[Duffbeer]

The same "s.o.t" being that some also say about making sure that if you do use sugar, making sure it's cane sugar not beet sugar.

With modern processing there is no difference in fermentable quality from either cane or beet sugar.

[fatbloke]

I have always heard (and read somewhere once) that regular sucrose must be broken down by the yeast and changed to dextrose (corn sugar ?) which is simpler and easier to turn into alcohol and CO2. I agree the yeast probably could care less what type of sugar they get as long as it is fermentable.

I maintain that sugar is sugar. Yeast will happily metabolize it, no matter the form - monosaccharides, polysaccharides, glucose, or sucrose. Regardless of the form that goes into the front end, they will spew alcohol out the back end. Well, if they had a back end, that is.

I suspect that you're "spot on" there, it's just that as Glenvall points out above, I suspect I'm thinking of having read the same or similar info - especially the comment about corn sugar/dextrose/glucose (I also seem to recall reading something, somewhere, about musts having been made using dextrose/glucose/corn sugar needing less nutrients, as the yeast, or more specifically, the enzymes produced by the yeast cells finding it easier to convert the sugar part to alcohol).

With modern processing there is no difference in fermentable quality from either cane or beet sugar.

yes, you're probably also spot on there Karl, it's a bit akin to reading modern stuff and some of the CJJ stuff when the techniques where different (not forgetting the possible differences of the materials used, not all that long ago).

I'm alluding to the stuff that Bob has mentioned often i.e. that we now use better yeasts, having greater control over how they work, and using a hydrometer to be more specific in the product we're aiming to produce.

Ha! there's probably still people who insist on sticking to the original idea's/consensuses of how stuff is made (it didn't taste like that when I first tasted it.........????? - I suspect you know what I mean here).

Personally I tend to go for the cheapest materials (differences in prices of sugars etc) because Clare is happy for me to buy up materials when they're cheap, as long as they don't take up too much space

regards

JtFB

[rantan]

Taste

thanks everybody for all the replies, it made interesting reading.
So does anyone know if the type of sugar used changes the taste of the wine, or shall i do some experiments?

which still leaves me with the dark spray malt

[grandmawoods]

or shall i do some experiments?

Please do...don't forget to share your results with us who are waiting to hear of your adventures.

[james]

Until recently, I used standard white sugar in beer. Then I tried brewing sugar (dextrose) for 2 brews. I didn't notice any difference at all. Now I'm back on using white sugar.

I seem to recall CJJ Berry has a recipe for grapefruit and spray malt wine using grapefruit juice and pale spray malt. He suggests its a very rapid fermenter and can be drunk as soon as its clear. I made it once & it tastes rather odd.....

[Asparky]

I have brewed beer forover 40 years and used cane sugar when I first started. I found all my hi test brews always had a cider taste to them... some years later I read an artical that cane/ beet sugar did just that (cider flaver if to much) when I renewed brewing a few years back I started using corn sugar and found I didn't get the same cider taste, but, I didn't make rocket fuel either like I used to.

so, even way back beet sugar was frowned on... even though it all makes alchol, Is beet sugar a good as choice as 100% cane... the beet can be a lot cheaper unless the canes on sale.. and, I hate beets

RON

[ScoPa]

When we first started I read many articles about sugar and I remember a few cautions about using brown sugars for wine as they could leave a caramel, burnt toffee flavour.

We used organic unrefined cane sugar - a slight biege colour and just prayed

I think it imparted a richness to the wine, I can't prove this as I don't have a control batch to compare.

We've used standard granulated in the following (but different) batches - they aren't so good. Which may (and probably) has nothing to do with the sugar. But I am now reverting back to the unrefined cane.

Pam

[Gaztops]

I found that beet sugar gave me a slightly higher SG than Cane sugar for the same weight or volume.

I usually buy 5 kg bags. If I buy it from Tesco's it is cane sugar and Asda is beet sugar, thay are the same price so i don't know why big stores sells different types of sugar in the 5kg bag range.

Gary

[oliver90owner]

I found that beet sugar gave me a slightly higher SG than Cane sugar for the same weight

Doesn't compute. Sugar is sugar is sugar where granulated is concerned. Both very close to 100% sucrose. Nothing else in there to alter a specific gravity unless you were perhaps adding your sugar by volume? Bulk density will be a function of crystal size, not whether from beet or cane.

RAB