Sulphites - the differences ?

[fatbloke]

I'm just about to rack the Kiwi Melomel and the Apple and Raspberry. So of course I've been sanitising/cleaning stuff.

I also made up a batch of CJJ's home made sulphite solution and it got me thinking.

Here (UK, not sure about the rest of Europe) we tend to use Sodium Metabisulphite for adding sulphites and for certain cleaning/sanitising functions, whereas in the US, it seems to be common to use Potassium Metabisulphite.

Now I understand that the point of those two products, inasfaras preventing spoilage etc, but that would be the function of the sulphite part of them.

If you overdo it, you can ruin the flavour of a wine with Sodium based sulphites and I'd have thought that the same would apply for Potassium based sulphites.

My point being, that for those on low Sodium diets, Potassium Chloride is often used as a "less salty"/low Sodium condiment/seasoning, compared to "normal" salt/Sodium Chloride.

With that in mind, I've been wondering why it is that we tend to use the sodium based ones here, rather than the potassium based ones.

Surely, if the Potassium based "salt alternative" is less salty, then it's likely that it would give us more leeway and be less likely to ruin a wine.

So apart from the cost difference, is there any other reason why we shouldn't be using Potassium based sulphites ?

regards

JtFB

p.s. it's a bit like why acid testing kits here express the result as "sulphuric", whereas the same products in the US express the results as tartaric. Why ?

[NorthernWiner]

I suspect the answer comes down more to bureaucracy than anything else.

I can't respond to the UK-specific questions, but with regard to sulfite use in the US, there are very strict guidelines for what can be used in wine. The US has a federal government agency, the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (aka the TTB), that oversees the manufacture of "sin" products. Yes, many American laws are still based on 400-year old Puritan ideas. Interestingly, the same agency used to oversee firearm restrictions, but I guess they figured that handguns were somehow less sinful than booze and cigs.

It's my understanding that sodium-based preservatives, such as sodium metabisulfite and sodium benzoate, are not allowed in commercial wine production because some bureaucrat decided that sodium has no place as a wine additive. This is mandated at the federal (national) level. On top of this, each state also has its own winemaking laws. For example, in California, winemakers are not allowed to add sugar to the must, however, it's perfectly legal everywhere else.

To add to the confusion, we are allowed to import wine from countries that use sodium in winemaking. So Americans can buy and drink wine produced in Europe, even though it may not have been manufactured under the same guidelines that are supposed to "protect" Americans.

Bottom line, John: no matter where on earth you live, we are all at the mercy of the ninnies and nannies who run our respective governments.

[Cellar_Rat]

Sodium Metabisulphite (camben tablets etc) are more readily available. I use Potassium Metabisulphite which I have to say imparts a differnet finish, but is V difficult to get hold of (Vigo only no HBS's that I know of stock it) Although it is readily avaialable in tablet form in France. I also found it is the ONLY choice for the commercial vintners?

I will be interested if we get to the bottom of this one!

[Richard S]

For example, in California, winemakers are not allowed to add sugar to the must, however, it's perfectly legal everywhere else.

I always think of California as being a bit of a strange place, its a wonder anyone lives there with laws as bonkers as this.

[Cellar_Rat]

..... So Americans can buy and drink wine produced in Europe, even though it may not have been manufactured under the same guidelines that are supposed to "protect" Americans.

Bottom line, John: no matter where on earth you live, we are all at the mercy of the ninnies and nannies who run our respective governments.

There are some very big agreements in place that permit the sale of US wine in EU countries becuase it list of permissbale presevatives is vast in comparison to that of the EU. I am not sure this has anything to do with indredients...

... someone out there must know ?

[NorthernWiner]

I always think of California as being a bit of a strange place, its a wonder anyone lives there with laws as bonkers as this.

Have you seen the James and Oz series where they visit California wine country? Funny as sh!t.

California is a strange place. I've been there many times. Basically, it's where all the hippies and flower children migrated to in the 60's. Many of the wineries out there were started by the ones who stuck around.

Their wine laws are actually somewhat lax compared to other places, though. For example, they aren't limited to only using certain grape varieties within certain regions, as they are in France. Which is good, I think.

[NorthernWiner]

There are some very big agreements in place that permit the sale of US wine in EU countries becuase it list of permissbale presevatives is vast in comparison to that of the EU.

Actually, there are only two preservatives permitted in US wines: potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate. Nothing else is allowed. I don't think that's any different than the EU, though I could be wrong.

Food is a different matter, though. Many things are permitted in US foods that makes one scratch their heads.

[Richard S]

Have you seen the James and Oz series where they visit California wine country? Funny as sh!t.

Yes I have and yes it is.

Look out for the latest series, they tour the UK in a very large Rolls Royce towing a very small caravan looking for the drink that typifies Britain. They do the whole thing, beer, wine, cider, spirits etc and as usual it's very funny.

[lockwood1956]

Sodium metabisulphite is more potent (about 8% more) than potassium version


they both do the same job. The reason that our friends over the pond use pottassium version is due to reasons of salt intake.

they are to all intents and purposes interchangeable.

[plonky]

Sodium metabisulphite is more potent (about 8% more) than potassium version


they both do the same job. The reason that our friends over the pond use pottassium version is due to reasons of salt intake.

they are to all intents and purposes interchangeable.

Ha Ha anyone have a recipie for BigMAc n Fries wine must be less salt in that and therefore healthier!

[rjb222]

Sodium metabisulphite is more potent (about 8% more) than potassium version


they both do the same job. The reason that our friends over the pond use pottassium version is due to reasons of salt intake.

they are to all intents and purposes interchangeable.

I know that you have all kinds of information stored away Bob could you supply a link or a place to look at the differences? I have asked this of Spagnols they claim no difference other than the carrier.I would like to have some thing to back my thoughts. I find sodium seems to smell more powerful than the potassium.

[lockwood1956]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_metabisulphite

I'm not always the biggest wikipedia fan, but on this occcasion....

[Cellar_Rat]

Well spotted Steve..
When I wrote permissable presevatives it should have been permissable additives. There are indeed only two preservatives, but the list of additives is different in the US and different again in US wines to be exported to Europe.

Some of the additives to the untrained eye seem quite scary.....

[Aid]

I have a question about Sodium metabisulphite that I've been meaning to ask. Who actively uses it?

I use it in campden tablet form to stop fementations and when soaking fruit, pre-fermentation, but I never use it for sterlising. I use vwp on everything and rinse a lot.
Is there any merit in switching to sulphiting more?

[lockwood1956]

I use it all the time.....


its great, easy to use, I use it in 10% fporm for sanitising things, and have some in a spray bottle for sanitising spoons etc. Once you start doing it this way you will never go back to VWP

regards
Bob