Buttery taste

[piagio2000]

Last night I opened a bottle of kit barolo I made some months ago.
It had a disticnt buttery nose and taste to it...not unlike the smell you get when you pop your owbn butter popcorn in the microwave. I wouldn't say it was unpleasant and it certainlt didn't stop me drinking it.
Tonight I have opened another bottle from the same batch and it doesn't have that buttery taste and is quite delicious.

Any idea's what the taste is from last night? And is it a fault? Or maybe the bottle has been contaminated? THough I would have thought if it was contamination the wine would have been undrinkable.

As it happens I have a Beaverdale Chateu Nuff which jhas just been cleared....I am getting the same buttery taste from that when I have sampled it.
Anyone shed any light?

[NorthernWiner]

A buttery flavor usually comes from diacetyl, which is a byproduct of malo-lactic fermentation (MLF). MLF is often desired in red wines made from grapes but it's rare to have this happen in a kit wine. Having said that, I've had two kits go through MLF on their own.

[piagio2000]

Thanks for the responce.
I've saw quite Aa bit about malo-lactic fermentation, but I must admit I don't understand it much.
I think some people want it to happen and others don't?
What conditions cause it? And is it to be avoided if possible?

[Duffbeer]

It is caused by malo lactic bacteria which converts harsh malic acid and as a result can make wines smoother.
Very unusual in a kit as Steve say's because the concentation process will usually kill it off.
I would avoid it unless you are going to introduce a known culture so the results are under control. Also if you suspect a wine is going through or has gone through MLF then DO NOT add sorbate at the finish or the fault and smell known as geranium will occur.

[kessler]

It is caused by malo lactic bacteria which converts harsh malic acid and as a result can make wines smoother.
Very unusual in a kit as Steve say's because the concentation process will usually kill it off.
I would avoid it unless you are going to introduce a known culture so the results are under control. Also if you suspect a wine is going through or has gone through MLF then DO NOT add sorbate at the finish or the fault and smell known as geranium will occur.

This is interesting. I stumbled across this whilst searching for something else.

I did a Winexpert South African Cabernet Sauv which did MLF, unbeknown to me until I tasted and smelled it. Definite butterscotch/diacetyl.

I added the sorbate as per destructions and got no geraniums.

Am I lucky?

Perhaps I'll do the lottery tonight

[rjb222]

As Duff has mentioned a kit going through Malolactic is most times a problem. If sorbate is added there will be a distinct Geranium aroma will occur. The occurrence of malolactic fermentation that comes on spontaneously is usually caused from improper sanitation. This could occur from a spore that falls in while your fermenter is open or sometimes the oak addition from a open bag of chips. One can however achieve a very similar flavor profile with out malolactic fermentation. Tim V from Winexpert recommends doing a stirring of the fine lees to accomplish this. Sanitize a spoon and gently lift the fine lees once a week for about six months. You do this method before adding any clearing agents. Do add the sulfite before trying this to protect your wine from oxidization.This will impart the buttery flavors desired with out the risk of the geranium aroma.

[kessler]

That SA Cab S is one of my most prized wines too.

[NorthernWiner]

Am I lucky?

Perhaps I'll do the lottery tonight

Could be... let us know how the lottery comes out.

[kessler]

Could be... let us know how the lottery comes out.

A 10 15 20 28 43 06 07 LD
B 04 06 21 46 48 04 08 LD
C 11 39 45 46 50 04 09 LD
D 04 21 23 35 37 05 08 LD

* Draws: Friday
* Weeks: 1

Dates

1. Friday 18 Sep 2009

EuroMillions: 4 plays x £1.50 for 1 draw = £6.00 Total: £6.00

[ms67]

i got a beaverdale shiraz that has a faint whiff of geranium about it. not enough to make it undrinkable, but enough to make it not right, and breathing seems to dissipate this note. is this possible or is it likely to be something else? i made a rose on the lees/oak chips after racking and its wonderful, so good that i would even suffer this whiff of geranium to repeat the rose ... which is sad really as the rose was meant to be a cheapskate wine from cheapo grape juice benefitting from speciality yeast/oak from the kits. Very interesting to see that everyone here is mentioning beaverdale tho. i thought it must have been me.

[Crundy]

Additional thread hijack: I'm going to be making some #1's using Gervin Varietal D which metabolises Malic Acid. Do I need to avoid using sorbate with this wines as well?

[goldseal]

Additional thread hijack: I'm going to be making some #1's using Gervin Varietal D which metabolises Malic Acid. Do I need to avoid using sorbate with this wines as well?

In my experience, Gervin D (aka Lalvin 71B-1122) is fine with sorbate.

[NorthernWiner]

Additional thread hijack: I'm going to be making some #1's using Gervin Varietal D which metabolises Malic Acid. Do I need to avoid using sorbate with this wines as well?

No problem with the yeast. It's only ML bacteria interaction with sorbate that should be avoided.

[Crundy]

Ah OK, so it isn't the metabolite that reacts with the sorbate, it's the bacteria itself?

[NorthernWiner]

Yes. It's a misconception that ML bacteria only consume malic acid. It will actually consume a lot of things, including citric acid, sorbic acid, and even residual sugar. It metabolizes these various compounds in different ways, with some desirable results, and some bad. The metabolization of sorbic acid produces an undesirable compound called geraniol.