low ph, problem or not?

[fullmoonwinery]

hi, i've just read this

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=891

and tested my pH and my whites are clocking in at 2.7 and reds 2.9. (i did calibrate my meter with 6.86 and 4.0 solution and its fine)

according to that thread 'Typically, a red wine should show a pH of between 3.2 and 3.6, while a slightly lower value, representing a more acidic solution - between 3.0 and 3.2 - works well for whites'. Also there is a lot written about the dangers for too high a pH but nothing about too low.

should i try fix my low pH now or just live with it? i don't know why i got it so acid, i used juice from 2 small limes (we don't have lemons here). i guess the supermarket juice is very acid, Thai grapes. (NOTE, i just read this at http://www.wineperspective.com/the_acidity_of_wine.htm 'CLIMATE: ACID vs. SUGAR ... Therefore, grapes grown in warmer climates have lower acidity than grapes grown in cooler climates.' ) so it sounds like the grapes are not to blame)

thanks and i hope you all don't mind the flood of questions, i'm learning a lot.

steve

[ms67]

this is just a very personal feeling type of response so i'll start this reply with this ...

do you like the wine you make? and could you make it better suit your tastes with a more 'normal' level of acidity?

without a doubt you'll get a heap of replies that directly address your question. and i love those response myself so please don't get me wrong here. wines that fit into a popular range do so for good reasons. but i also have this lingering feeling that local conditions/environments/tastes etc (you know what i mean i hope) influence what is perceived to be a good result. if you like it, and if you can rely on those around and about to give good honest feedback, then perhaps you have hit upon a winner? i lived in an area of spain that used sun dried moscatel grapes to make the most amazing sweet wines, new world wines broke lots of old world wine rules. In the end i guess it comes down what it does for your taste buds. Of course you cant rule out the popular, and i may just be some heretical nutter, but if you make you own wine then you can tailor it to your own tastes.


Having said all that i am wondering about acid testing kits myself cos it seems like it could be an imminent step on my route to making fine wine. so take it all with a pinch of salt, tho don't put it in your wine! unless you like salt of course ....

(written after 1 and 1/2 bottles of wine)

[fatbloke]

so normally, ferments like an acid environment, but no too low as it can cause hassle with stuck ferments sometimes.

Personally, I'd be inclined to get something just to raise it a little to bring it within "normal" peramitters.......

just my 2 pence worth

regards

jtfb

p.s. even if it does ferment Ok, i'd think that you might find youself correcting later, either with something to increase it a little or by sweetening to mask the taste of the extra acidity.....

[fullmoonwinery]

any suggestions about raising pH in the must?

i found this: http://viticulture.hort.iastate.edu/...idmustwine.pdf

'High acid/low pH must best de-acidified with potassium carbonates'

steve

[fullmoonwinery]

i was just about to add calcium carbonate and decided to re-check pH first. it has risen overnight to 2.9 which is close enough to 3.0 that i think i'll leave it alone. i don't know if the rise is because it's started fermenting already or what, but it seems like its on the right track so no problem.

it does sounds like its worth monitoring pH periodically throughout the whole process.

steve

[fatbloke]

i was just about to add calcium carbonate and decided to re-check pH first. it has risen overnight to 2.9 which is close enough to 3.0 that i think i'll leave it alone. i don't know if the rise is because it's started fermenting already or what, but it seems like its on the right track so no problem.

it does sounds like its worth monitoring pH periodically throughout the whole process.

steve

Hum? Personally I like my musts to be in the range of 3.5 to 4.0pH

so whether <3.0pH is likely to cause you problems I couldn't say, the link you posted, well it did seem to indicate that it's better to raise the pH of a must than to a finished ferment/wine (well that's how it read to me.....). So maybe it's better to raise it now rather than wait. a higher pH would give you greater flexibility for fluctuation during ferment, than is currently allowed for with such a low reading....

Besides, if the finished wine tasted like it needed a bit more acid, it's easier to add a tiny amount than it is to remove excessive amounts "after the fact".......

Just my 2 pence worth.....

regards

jtfb

[NorthernWiner]

Full Moon,

Are you referring to grape musts, or some other kind of fruit?

You have to be very careful raising the pH of grape musts. When the pH is that low, it usually indicates underripe fruit, and underripe fruit tends to have an excess of malic acid. Unfortunately, carbonates (calcium or potassium) only act on tartaric. Many people make the mistake of trying to raise the pH too much too quickly, and end up with tartaric acid levels that are too low. Once malolactic completes you then end up with a wine that is soft and flabby.

If you decide to raise the pH (I would), my suggestion would be to not go any further than 3.4-3.5 before fermentation. Once ML completes, take another reading. You may need to make another minor adjustment at that point.

Another, less intrusive, option for raising pH is to use a yeast strain that will metabolize some of the malic. 71B-1122 works nicely for this.

The grapes I grow are often in the 2.8-3.1 range for pH. Following the methodologies above, my ending pH is usually in the 3.6-3.7 range, and the acid is balanced.

[fatbloke]

-----%<-----

The grapes I grow are often in the 2.8-3.1 range for pH. Following the methodologies above, my ending pH is usually in the 3.6-3.7 range, and the acid is balanced.

Is that because of your location Steve or the types of grapes you're growing ???

regards

jtfb

[NorthernWiner]

Is that because of your location Steve or the types of grapes you're growing ???

A little of both. People growing the same varieties in more temperate climes also report high acid levels, though typically lower than mine.

[fullmoonwinery]

i'm using supermarket grape juice on recipes #1 and #2

i just added 2000mg of calcium carbonate to the whites to get them up to 3.1 and 4000mg to the reds to get them up to 3.3. that's inside the range described on the pH tutorial.

its good for me to be on the more acid side of the range because more acid wines survive better if kept warm i read.

i'll let you know how they come out, thanks for the advice.

steve

P.S. i notice the drinking water i used to make the wine is pH of 6.0 which if maybe part of the reason for the high acidity in the first place.

steve