Grape v Kit

[crusher]

Discounting whether you prefer making wine from kits or fresh grapes which generally give the best results and which offer the best value? ie. cost per bottle.
I have in the past (very distant ) made wine from fresh grapes but it is so long ago that I can't remember how good they were and I don't think kits were in the same league then as they are now.
Iv'e had good results from kits recently but wonder if I am missing out

[Duffbeer]

It's more fun making wine with fresh grapes, but the quality isn't always guaranteed and you will also, like the higher end kits, need to be patient for sure.
I think most like myself will tend to go 50 / 50, fresh grapes are slightly cheaper than the high end kits, but IMHO not always give the same quality time & time again.
The grapes I'm refering to are what we can get at grapefest, this years merlot looks promising, last years Grenache & Sangiovese weren't as good, though mine is coming round.
Join us for Grapefest 2010, it'll be fun even if you just get a few gallon to play with.

[ms67]

i've only made one grape kit, having read so many positive reports of it. it was beaverdale shiraz. My experience has been mixed, some bottles turned out very nice some were not quite right.

Despite my limited experience i'll chuck in my pennies worth to kick off the thread; it probably mainly depends on your budget, but you are in a good place to get a fuller answer and i'm sure others will soon give you a much better answer and suggest some things to get you excited

[NorthernWiner]

I can't answer the better value question, because I live outside the UK and don't know what grapes or kits sell for over there. Here in the states, grapes are an excellent value. My average price in fruit needed to make 5 gallons of wine is £55 for red wine (£1.83 per bottle), and £25 for whites (83p/bottle). For "premium" grapes (Napa Valley/Sonoma), the cost is about double. Kits run between £35-£125, depending on the grade. I don't make many kits any more - maybe 1 or 2 a year.

I agree with Duffbeer that grapes are far more fun, but also require extra work and diligence to create a decent wine.

[goldseal]

I agree with Duffbeer that grapes are far more fun, but also require extra work and diligence to create a decent wine.

Agreed.

In my case Grapefest 08 Sangiovese and Ciliegiolo are turning out great, Grenache is still basically grape juice with alcohol in it. Grapefest 09's Merlot is very promising but the Ciliegiolo is a different animal this year - much lighter.

Cost-wise, the Merlot cost me £62 ish, and it should yield about 7 gallons. This equates to £44 for 5 gallons, which is a bit more than a Beaverdale kit. The resulting wine should be far superior. It should be on a par with, if not better than, a £65 - 70 WinExpert kit.

However, last year's Grenache could be considered £50 of disappointment. Factor that into the overall cost and the grape wines get a bit more expensive.

With grapes, you are less likely to get a wine which is identical to somebody else's. I remember at GF08 four people brought their Montepulcianos along, and we tasted 4 completely different wines. My GF08 Ciliegiolo was totally different to Rich's. So, you have the opportunity to put your own personal stamp on it.

Make high-end kits for (almost) guaranteed quality after a few years, and make wine from grapes for fun, adventure and the chance to experiment. Only buy grapes if you don't mind the occasional sub-optimal result

I think I have just basically repeated Steve's post . Oh well, I'm not going to delete it now

EDIT: (and Karl's post )

[Duffbeer]

i think i have just basically repeated steve's post . Oh well, i'm not going to delete it now

edit: (and karl's post )

parrot :d

[alcopop]

Well pete at least it wasn't a cut and paste and there was some different information within it.

Terry

[NorthernWiner]

Well pete at least it wasn't a cut and paste and there was some different information within it.

Yes, exactly. And besides, I just basically repeated Karl's post.

[Cellar_Rat]

Odd man out. Kits leave me cold - wine, beer all the same.
I suppose my thinking is the same as it is to motorcycling - its about the journey. I 'make' wine from grapes - I feel like I 'just add water' to a kit (now that could liven up the debate)

Price wise I think grapes are better value.

Time from grape to glass - I was drinking Sept 09 Ciliegiolo in Dec 09 - so thats got to be a draw.

IMHO I do feel you know a bit more about whats in it, if you start with grapes.

But then I also enjoy the grape (bulk) process more too. 5 gallons at a time drives me bonkers. But this forum has stared me fermenting all sorts of other things this year - dare I say melons!!

[SiSandrine]

Odd man out. Kits leave me cold - wine, beer all the same.

Have to agree with Cellar_Rat. For me wine making is the challenge of human harnessing the grape/eldeberry/strawberry etc. A kind of connection with the historical tradition of wine making and the enjoyment of creating something from things you have grown or collected (except for parsnips or hops - not doing that again: sorry parsnip lovers).

As the posts point out, kit consistency is high and is a great way to start in a controlled way.

On price - elderflowers, eldberries and sloes are free, generally available and plentiful and if you make a decent wine base you can make some really good wines. Ok if it is about the end product then lets be honest top end kits will be better and if you are into wine making to save money then fair play you can rival some pretty good wines with kits.

Point to bear in mind here though, some of the equipment I have been given over the last couple of years has been from people who have invested in all the winemaking paraphernalia, tried a low engined kit and given up as the wine was 'horrible'. I.e. the investment has to be realised over time - wine making to save money is not a quick win.
IMHO, kits are just too straightforward, to keep the journey metaphor going you just know too much about the journey before you begin.