general Q

[bill]

First off sorry if i seem to always be on asking but im getting into this wine making and sometimes cant see the wood for the trees whilst reading up..

is it reasonable to assume most grape juice from supermarkets contain little tannin?

on the acid front i measured some GJ (red) and the sulphuric level was around 3ppt ( around 5 tartaric if im right) is this too low for reds/rose ?

i read citric is fine with whites but doesnt go well with reds and tartaric is better

is white supposed to be more acidic than reds ?

whats the sulphuric level supposed to be for reds and whites ? i seem to be reading different values.. a sulphuric one will do as this is what i would be measuring with my kit..


again sorry for what may seem like me pestering with questions but im just trying to get my head round it..

im getting there slowly ..

billy

[ms67]

im getting into this wine making and sometimes cant see the wood for the trees whilst reading up..
billy

Hi Bill, your comment above does a good job of summing things up to me. However i am quite happy to concede that i am wrong in what i'm about to say. or if not wrong then simply that its all a matter of personal preferences etc.

Brewing is more or less a simple or complicated as you make it. There are loads of great recipes about that a new brewer can get stuck into with little or no modification. That may sound boring, and i often tinker with recipes to get more of what i like and less of what i don't like. i take advantage of others blazing trails and use the knowledge they have gleaned and shared. So for making wines from cartons of juice or tea bags for example i'll look up a recipe and use the suggested amounts and types of acids, tannins etc with little or no tinkering. If the results are not what i expect then i'll do some reading, it may be better or worse than i wanted but either way its nice to try to find out why. it seems to me that you are getting immersed in lots of detail that you maybe don't need to worry about at this stage, will you be able to identify what caused unexpected results given how many variables there are and how sure will you be that the basics are not the cause?

i offer these thoughts only with your enjoyment of brewing in mind, and wonder if the level of complexity that you are engaging is possibly going to take away from this?

There are a huge number of vastly more experienced brewers than me here, they may disagree and i'll certainly be interested to hear what they say. Bottom line tho is that you should enjoy it, and if this is your style of doing things then go for it and enjoy!

[bill]

cheers for that.. its just me , im the sort of person who likes to know why im doing something . i have wine #1 and #2 on the go so i am starting from scratch but i have a wine near finished that was for want of a better word threw together off the back of having a go at making turbo cider. it was near very good ( for people like me who couldnt tell a good wine from a peanut anyway) and everyone commented on it being good but i could tell something wasnt quite right..

so with the new wines going and me analysing the old one questions pop up..

im after the info that will make me think "ahhh thats why thats done that way".

it may seem im trying to run before i can crawl but im really taking my time actually brewing its just the theory so to speak ..

i was the same taking my exams to become a radio amateur ( morse code etc) frantically digesting info..

dont know where that come from though i was a lazy sod at school..

billy

[ms67]

cool Bill, glad you took my comments in the spirit they were intended .. don't let me change your style, after all i may be coming to you for acid/tannin advice in the not too distant future so i don't want to upset you

[kampervan]

one of the best things learnt from here (bob) was take 3 glasses water add acid to one, tannin to another and sugar to the 3rd. taste them all. gives you an idea about what they are in excess. we then did this with wine (very bland commercial) not water and then started blending them. was good fun and also very informative. everyone has different tastes. i learnt i like dry fairly acidic with not a lot of tannin.

[ms67]

sounds like fun as well as being informative as you said .... i'll give that a go myself sometime. How much does the taste of the tannin change over time tho and in its interactions with the oter stuff in wine? does it still give a good reflection of what it does to wine in the way its normally used in brewing, apart from adding astringence?

[kampervan]

it chages a lot in 30 months, thats as far as i have got so far. but tasting it makes you realise why you go yuk to young elderberry

[goldseal]

Hi Bill,

I think ms67's advice is spot-on.

When I started winemaking I started from scratch knowledge-wise, so the learning curve was steep. Because the brewing and maturing times are naturally quite long, there is plenty of time for thought and research, and there was the possibility that I might have started over-complicating things in my head.

Bob's favourite response to me was 'Patience, young Skywalker' because I was forever panicking about fermentations not starting promptly, odd smells etc..

His advice was good. My advice to you would be the similar

... and everyone commented on it being good but i could tell something wasnt quite right..

We have a number of Wine Judges here (Bob, Karl, Richard S) - I'm sure they'd evaluate it for you. 250ml PET bottles are great for sending wine through the post.

Above all, enjoy yourself

[bill]

cheers chaps.. well i have already learnt lots on here. i have learnt one very valuable lesson and thats patience. my first wine i made i refered to as being good but odd i think i have sussed out the problem..

when i tried turbo ciders the main advice seemed to be ferm till around 1000 mark. as soon as they hit 1000 i was stabilising etc and they all tasted like crap..

now with my first wine i did from my head which got some good comments had strange smells and tastes depending on the bottles i was trying..

first off i let ferm to 1000 then stabilised ( first mistake)

used 2tsp of stabiliser as per carton but this turns out to be a printing error ( youngs)

used cheap ingredients ( jif lemon and cup of tea)

dont think i let clear thoroughly as each bottle seemed different and maybe this was part of the issue as i got near the bottom of the dj on bottling i may of been picking more stuff up although it looked clear. my last bottle did end up with some sort of sediment that looked like clumped up splenda that i used to sweeten.

when i was adding the splenda i had to stir very well to get rid of this gunk type stuff floating around and i think this is whats at the bottom of the last bottle.

im on my way with the begginner wines on here anyway so although im like a mad scientist at the moment im also having a side which is willing to start from the beginning and do the begginner wines and learn something first hand...

its all learning .

billy

[lockwood1956]

See here (page 2 of the doc) for Acidity levels for wines

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum

and see here for Educate your palate talk

part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=181fEjDQtus&feature=related

part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrQW5wVKfgc&feature=related

hope this helps
regards
Bob

[bill]

cheers bob, just watched the youtube vids.. going to give the tasting of different ingredients a try. nice one and very informative.

billy

[ms67]

it chages a lot in 30 months, thats as far as i have got so far. but tasting it makes you realise why you go yuk to young elderberry

cheers