Grapes to go - what do you think?

[Cellar_Rat]

I am thinking about doing grapes pre crushed in plastic drums, sulphited (50 ppm) frozen. Ready to ferment.

This means we can ferment real grapes all year round.
I would like your thoughts:
Does 50ppm sound about right?
I was thinking of doing them as 20L mash in a 25 L drum - would this be agood fermentable size?
Red or white?

Any other thoughts would be appreciated?

[Rich]

Red grapes de stemmed+crushed and then in a barrel frozen?

I'd be concerned on the amount of juice I'd get post pressing. Not enough juice would leave too much headspace in a carbouy/better bottle. What size are the frozen pails you can get in America/Canada?

Maybe a 10 gallon bucket with lid that would fit 5 trays of grapes and frozen would be good. But then your looking at what price for the buckets, and the storage. Also frozen delivery??

[Cellar_Rat]

Do they loose anything by being frozen ?

Like when some fruit isn't as good frozen or dried or otherwise processed other than fresh, for it's best quality ?

regards

jtfb

I am running a test at the moment. Two identical batches - one will have been frozen for one week.

[Cellar_Rat]

Red grapes de stemmed+crushed and then in a barrel frozen?

I'd be concerned on the amount of juice I'd get post pressing. Not enough juice would leave too much headspace in a carbouy/better bottle. What size are the frozen pails you can get in America/Canada?

Maybe a 10 gallon bucket with lid that would fit 5 trays of grapes and frozen would be good. But then your looking at what price for the buckets, and the storage. Also frozen delivery??

Spot on! I can't decide(work out) what is the best size to start with, given the wide variety of fermenters & their REAL capacity (as against stated), the fact the head will need punching down etc etc and then after pressing, will it be demi john - better bottle - carboy????

If a case of grapes contains 7 KG grapes will 3 cases, crushed and destalked = 21 Liters. It should, but I don't think it will.

PS. This will be UK only.

[goldseal]

If you need guinea pigs, add me to the list

[NorthernWiner]

I'd be concerned on the amount of juice I'd get post pressing. Not enough juice would leave too much headspace in a carbouy/better bottle. What size are the frozen pails you can get in America/Canada?

Frozen must in the US generally comes in two sizes: 55 gallon drums (45 imp gal), and 5 US gallon "ropak" pails (4 imp gal).

The nice thing about the smaller size pails is that 5 USG grape must weighs almost precisely 50 lbs., which makes it convenient for determining how many to purchase - since grapes are almost always purchased by weight. Two such containers, once pressed, will make enough wine to fill a 6 USG carboy (5 imp gals).

The frozen red grape must I buy here is never sulphited. It's flash frozen and remains that way until ready to use, so there is no need for it. Even after three years in storage, browning is minimal.

White juice is handled only slightly differently. The white juice is settled, lightly filtered and racked off the sediment before being frozen. You also get slightly more in a container, about 5.25 USG. The extra accounts for losses from the first racking. White juice is also sulphited at between 25-50 ppm. This helps prevent browning during the thaw period.

Our carboys in this country are commonly 5 or 6 US gallons. I make white wine in the 5 gallon size, and red wine in the 6 gallon size. Why, you might ask? Because that's what the frozen pails usually work out to.

[lockwood1956]

Sounds like something I would be interested in

[Cellar_Rat]

If you need guinea pigs, add me to the list

Will do - want volumes would work for you?

[goldseal]

I normally like to end up with a full carbuoy/Better Bottle, but I have started using 11.4 litre Better Bottles too (plus a little for topup).

So, I guess any volume which results in about 25 litres or 13 litres when racked to secondary.

[kessler]

I've been thinking about doing exactly the same

[Cellar_Rat]

I normally like to end up with a full carbuoy/Better Bottle, but I have started using 11.4 litre Better Bottles too (plus a little for topup).

So, I guess any volume which results in about 25 litres or 13 litres when racked to secondary.

I have 25 litre drums for the job, so 25 litre mash it is then. How much do you think we will loose to pressing?

[Cellar_Rat]

I've been thinking about doing exactly the same

Is this to feed the pod?

[goldseal]

I have 25 litre drums for the job, so 25 litre mash it is then. How much do you think we will loose to pressing?

Hmmm ....

All I can do is go by my Grapefest 2009 and 2010 experiences. I worked in boxes, not weights

14 boxes of Ciliegiolo yielded 69 litres of must once in secondary. This is about a gallon per box (4.9 litres approx)

8 boxes of Merlot yielded 40 litres (5 litres per box).

From memory I think 4 boxes would more or less fill a 25 - 30l fermenter.

Does that help? Probably not

[Cellar_Rat]

yeah it does - cases are 7kg (with stalk) = 5L (wine)
So if we say 1L = 1KG
25L mash = 25KG (ish)
25/7=3.5 (cases)
3.5 x 5L = 17.5 litres wine.

Gets us the 25 litre drums need to have 21litre(orKG) of crushed grapes to yield 15L of wine.

[kessler]

Is this to feed the pod?

Well sort of, though I expect to have several hundred kilos of seyval, solaris, regent and madeline this year from the vineyard, before we go commercial next year.

I'd tentatively made enquiries to a chap in N.Italy with a view to driving over a large refrigerated lorry full of grapes, thinking I'd store them in a freezer at the farm in 5 gallon plastic tubs.

He's being rather greedy though. So I'm not exactly sure, right at this moment.