2nd run after kit

[modofodo]

I read somewhere on here about using the lees of a decent kit as the starter for a cheap follow on wine....

I fancy giving this a go.

I have a 6 bottle beaverdale kit to do and was wondering what the best method was (I don't think there is any racking of this kit as standard). So would I just rack it before stabilizing it and then plonk my 2nd run ingredients onto the lees of the beaverdale kit?

ta!

[rjb222]

I read somewhere on here about using the lees of a decent kit as the starter for a cheap follow on wine....

I fancy giving this a go.

I have a 6 bottle beaverdale kit to do and was wondering what the best method was (I don't think there is any racking of this kit as standard). So would I just rack it before stabilizing it and then plonk my 2nd run ingredients onto the lees of the beaverdale kit?

ta!

2ND runs need fruit. Just using the lees will give you a coloured high alcohol drink with no body or flavor. There is a method to make a lemon wine and use the lees to start the ferment but you need an active ferment to do it. Basically your lees are used up and will make better drain cleaner. Sorry.

[modofodo]

Perhaps I am getting confused? Did I read on here or on JBK?

Thanks for the reply rjb222

[koomber]

As a wee experiment I have done 2 tests using one kit (A Beaverdale Cheatue du Roi 30 bottle). On the first racking (after 1 week) I took the lees and topped up to 5 gallons using wine number 1. Due to poor choice of juice it is still fermenting after 2 months, but doesn't seem too bad.

At the second racking I took all the lees from 5 gallons and topped it up to 1 gallon again with wine number 1, just to see what would happen. It can be done, but I have no idea if the wine will be anything other than coloured!

I'll keep you posted on how I got on.


PS: ms67 inspired me to do this. you might want to send him a PM as the wines that he made from this were very successful.

[rjb222]

This is different than 2nd run. You are using a live yeast bed to start another wine. A second run is where you add water and sugar to the fruit or grapes that were used in the first run and make a lighter wine. What you are doing is a type of yeast culturing. It is used quite often in beer brewing except the yeast is washed and stored to keep the strain pure.

[lockwood1956]

its a technical point.

but:

a 2nd run is where you take the fruit pulp from the first ferment, add more sugar water nutrient etc etc and ferment on.

what you are doing is taking the live yeast and using it to fire up a new wine with fresh ingredients.


using the lees to do this does indeed work, but be careful to do it only once, with each set of lees as the yeasties can start to mutate, and then who knows. Please also be aware that you are dumping into your fresh brew all sorts of yeastie dead stuff, it will be ok, just be aware you need to be careful about nutrient levels etc.


The "careful mans " way (replace tight or cheap as you see fit)
is to use yeast starters, that way you are using one packet of yeast for a whole series of wines, meaning you only need one packet so you can then afford to buy high quality yeast. I am reliably informed that the quality of beaverdale kits can be massively enhanced by binning their yeast that comes with the kit and using a high quality yeast instead, i will be experimenting with this soon.

see yeast starter tutorial here

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=908

I hope that clarifies things for you....if not then please feel free to PM me

regards
Bob

[ms67]

So would I just rack it before stabilizing it and then plonk my 2nd run ingredients onto the lees of the beaverdale kit?

ta!

this is what i do with my beaverdale red wine kits. When the ferment is all but over, or has only just finished, i "rack" it. I say "rack" because i'm not at all careful about keeping all the lees in one place, tho most of it remains in place anyway. I treat the lees as nothing more than a supply of yeast and oak chips. So then add all the usual ingredients, in the usual way, making sure that plenty of air gets into the mix too.

The ferment always takes off pronto, and its duration and vigour is similar to the original kit. I'm always pleased with the results and have made wines with 4.5 litres/gallon rgj (from cartons) and as little as 2 litres/gallon.

[modofodo]

Thanks for the clarification and revelation about Beaverdale yeast.

I am happy to invest in Lalvin and Gervin yeast sachets (I have a selection), though not got to the stage of the ultra premium Wyeast things. I'd be interested to know suitable replacements for the standard Beaverdale ones.

I might still give this ago as ms67 does just to try it, though maybe from the remnants of the selection luna rossa kit I just got from karl (ta)

I'm still learning

[koomber]

I think I see what modofodo was talking about. When I did it I added more yeast to the lees and juice mix. Not sure how well it would go without it!

Sorry for the mix up!

[modofodo]

I think I see what modofodo was talking about. When I did it I added more yeast to the lees and juice mix. Not sure how well it would go without it!

Sorry for the mix up!

It would have helped if I had used the correct terminology, also I should have been less lazy and tried to find the original thread!

[lockwood1956]

I'd be interested to know suitable replacements for the standard Beaverdale ones.

for white kits try lalvin D47 for red kits either K1V-1116 or RC-212

you will go a very long way to find better quality yeasts than these.

[rjb222]

I agree Bob RC 212 is a bit of a nutrient hog but well fed this is a super yeast.

[modofodo]

I use RC-212 in my tea wines and I have a couple of sachets in my box of tricks. I also have a D47, not sure if I have any K1V-1116 though.

Thanks!

[Rich]

K1v for most of mine now.. Really is good. Can take a while to age but then it's super. In my experience anyway.

[ms67]

K1v for most of mine now.. Really is good. Can take a while to age but then it's super. In my experience anyway.

K1V(116) top of the list here anyway, if order is anything to go by