mirabelle help

[mcblades]

Hi:

I have just finished steam juicing about 15 kilos of cherry plums (well I think that's what they are anyway). Although the fruit were quite nice eating the resulting juice is pretty sharp. I will measure the acidity tomorrow when I've finished scrubbing the steam pan which I managed to boil dry at the end of juicing.

I have about 2 gallons of juice which I was planning to make up to 4 gallons with 2L of white grape juice and water, then add sugar to 1080 and a couple of tsp of nutrient (no acid though I'm thinking).

When I come to ferment this is there any way of precipitating out the malic acid or do i Adjust pH with precipitated chalk and hope for a malo lactic ferment while in secondary?

This is the first steam juice I've made and it is a fantastic method compared with the faff that I had doing the previous 4 gallons (really looking forward to straining the grot out of the primary!).

thank in advance

mark

[lockwood1956]

Use Lalvin 71B-1122 or Gervin strain D yeast, these yeasts will metabolise quite a bit of the malic acid.

regards
Bob

[mcblades]

Thanks Bob, I shall give it a try.

Just measured the TA of the juice before dilution and sugar addition = 9.5ppt as sulphuric!

This is a bit on the high side methinks. Will the yeasties cope?

regards

MArk

ps Just measured the TA of the must from my traditional method and this is 6.5ppt. (gervin D yeast and I addded 1 tsp/gal tartaric at the start of ferment). If I stick this under airlock will a spontaneous malolactic start or will I need to add a culture?

[lockwood1956]

Just measured the TA of the must from my traditional method and this is 6.5ppt. (gervin D yeast and I addded 1 tsp/gal tartaric at the start of ferment). If I stick this under airlock will a spontaneous malolactic start or will I need to add a culture?

yeasties will cope just fine in high acid environment....


once sugar solution is added the acidity will drop hugely, measue when the must is complete....

Malo lactic ferment is unlikely to start spontaneously, so you would likely need to add a culture, either at the start, or when alcoholic ferment is almost over....there are merits to either method.

regards
bob

[lockwood1956]

See this thread for a bit more info on MLF, and current thinking in the industry

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4350

page two of the thread has the info you seek

[SiSandrine]

I had some similar results with some wild plums last week. They were pretty sharp but well falvoured. When I added the sugar and water the TA as sulphuric was around 3ppt. I had to add some acid blend to get it up to 4.5ppt prior to pitching the yeast.

[NorthernWiner]

Use Lalvin 71B-1122 or Gervin strain D yeast, these yeasts will metabolise quite a bit of the malic acid.

I'll second this.

I've never used the Gervin yeast, so I can't comment on that, but I have used 71B for cherry wine and it works fabulous. It will metabolize 20-40% of the malic acid. Since most species of cherries tend to run very high in malic, it can be a sizeable drop.

I've never had to do a malo-lactic ferment on cherry wine. If it ends up being a little on the acidic side, you can just sweeten it a bit and that will round out the tartness.

[mcblades]

Thanks All,

I think the plan is as follows:

for the steamed juice I will ferment this as normal but with your yeast suggestions and see what comes out when dry. In the meantime as the pulp ferment is now dry and racked into 2ndary I will get hold of some malolactic culture, make a starter and pitch this into the finished pulp ferment while the juice wine is fermenting. Then if the juice is still too tart I can add some ML culture to that.

I would like to make a dry wine if poss, so need to get the acidity sorted to reduce the sugar addition as far as possible.

With the ML ferment, how will I know when it's complete? Is it the case of watching the acidity drop until it stops dropping or is the airlock activity enough of a clue?

thanks

Mark

[lockwood1956]

To know for sure when Malo lactic is finished you need to test, the naked eye or airlock activity is not enough.......I have never successfuly achieved a malo lactic ferment with cherries, so just dont bother any more.... as Steve says, ifits a little tart, sweeten it a tiny bit ()off dry)

you will need a test kit to know for sure if ML is complete, and they are not easy to come by here.

[David]

Use Lalvin 71B-1122 or Gervin strain D yeast, these yeasts will metabolise quite a bit of the malic acid.

I've had an HB shop describe that as "red wine yeast".

Is it also suitable for yellow cherry plums (which I've found slightly less acidic than the red ones)?

And I've also avoided using my steamers on plums as I thought it would result in an even worse release of pectin than boiling - any thoughts here?

[mcblades]

Is it also suitable for yellow cherry plums (which I've found slightly less acidic than the red ones)?

And I've also avoided using my steamers on plums as I thought it would result in an even worse release of pectin than boiling - any thoughts here?

The cherry plums I used were a mixture of yellow and red. If I wait for them all to fully ripen they end up with either wasp holes or the birds get them.

The reason I used the steamer was that after stoning 2 buckets full of fruit I was losing the will to live. These made the pulp wine which has just gone into 2ndary. I then chopped (but didn't stone) another bucket full and made jam with them. This was a royal pain as the stones refused to float to the surface of the jam so I had to push it through a sieve while trying not to scald myself.

So, I thought, lets try the steam juicer. Wish I had thought of it sooner. The juice tastes plummy excellent (but a bit sharp) and no effort at all. 2 buckets of plums went through in 3 hours and produced a gallon and a half of juice. I reckon this will dilute to 4 galls plus a couple of liters of grape juice for vinification.

We will see about the pectin but I reckon 2 tsp per gallon should be enough?

fingers crossed.

MArk

[Cellar_Rat]

I've had an HB shop describe that as "red wine yeast".

No necessarily so.....

http://www.lalvinyeast.com/images/library/71B_Yeast.pdf

It is certainly not one of my choices for red! IMO lalvin yeasts are very good.

[mcblades]

Hi:

Got some malacid and added this to the pulp ferment yesterday. Seems to be bubbling (slowly) so I guess the ML is happening. As the juice is pasteurized, I think I will wait and see what the pulp turns out like before going ahead with the juice and lalvin 71B.

thanks fore the advice to date. Maybe it'll be a VWC contestant next year.

Mark

ps For the remaining malacid, I have vacuum packed it but can I freeze it or is it best left in the fridge or at room temp? No indication on the packet.

[NorthernWiner]

For the remaining malacid, I have vacuum packed it but can I freeze it or is it best left in the fridge or at room temp? No indication on the packet.

By "malacid," do you mean malo-lactic culture?

If it's a freeze-dried culture, you can store it in the freezer. If it's a liquid culture, then the fridge is best. However, keep in mind that once it's been open and exposed to air (even if vacuum sealed again), the shelf life is considerably shortened. You should use it within a few months.

[lockwood1956]

Got some malacid and added this to the pulp ferment yesterday. Seems to be bubbling (slowly) so I guess the ML is happening.

you cannot tell is ML is underway from airlock activity...

does it smell cheesy?