Skinny question

[Cellar_Rat]

Red wine from fresh grape.

When to press? When is the optimum time? I am between 6-10 days (after ferm starts) when the grape skins feel spent - like dead balloons (and I have sapre afternoon). The fermentation then finishes off in the carboy.

What does everyone else do?

[lockwood1956]

I normally press at around SG 1.000

[goldseal]

This year - wait until fermentation is more or less complete (i.e. the cap sinks), praying all the time

[lockwood1956]

Im too nervous to do that....too big a batch

[NorthernWiner]

For me, it depends on the varietal.

As a general rule I do the same as Pete, waiting until the cap is no longer buoyant. The last batch of Cabernet I made was on the skins for 21 days from start to finish, including 3 days of cold soak. Merlot and Cab Franc went about 16 days.

With real heavy, tannic reds like Petite Sirah or Petit Verdot, I press at around 2-3 Brix.

With French hybrid reds, I press when dry. If it isn't dry at 6 days, I press anyway. No extended maceration for those, as they can get a bit funky tasting if left in contact with skins for too long.

[Cellar_Rat]

With French hybrid reds, I press when dry. If it isn't dry at 6 days, I press anyway. No extended maceration for those, as they can get a bit funky tasting if left in contact with skins for too long.

This is interesting. I typically use Italian - merlot or Montepulciano. The local thinking is 6 - 10 days after boiling (fermenting hard)

In my head dryness is about the alcohol fermentation (which continues either side of pressing) - nothing to do with flavour and color extraction ....or is it?

[NorthernWiner]

No, you're head is right.

In my mind, red wine fermentations are all about extraction. Alcohol is a constant. Whether you press at 2 days or 20 days, you still end up with the same amount of alcohol.

The way I meant to say it is that I don't leave hybrids on the skins any longer than 6 days... period.

For most fermentations, my goal is to extract as much flavor/color as possible, and I'll sometimes go beyond dryness to achieve the heavier style I'm looking for.

With hybrids a lighter hand is needed, so I don't push the extraction. To begin with, color isn't as much of a concern because, unlike vinifera, the color of the juice is dark to begin with. And the flavor of the grapes is so strong that anything beyond 5-6 days of skin contact extracts undesirable traits.

[Cellar_Rat]

SO waht about stalkage then. My crusher de-stemmer is fantastic at removing 99% of all stalk (rollerless). So I aways add a fist full of the ripest back in. Do you put stalks in?

Sorry for all the questions. Every year I try to effect one change and measure the effect of it. This year will be to increase the complexity and depth. I am toying with removing some of the clear juice prior to ferm to concentrate. (the french have a ponsey name for this, but it escapes me at the moment)

[lockwood1956]

Susse reserve?

[NorthernWiner]

I am toying with removing some of the clear juice prior to ferm to concentrate. (the french have a ponsey name for this, but it escapes me at the moment)

Saignee (which means to "bleed off')

I've used that technique on Pinot Noir and Grenache to help with overall color, but I don't know that it's well suited for all varieties or situations.

As far as stems, my personal preference is to have none. Unless they are lignified, I don't feel anything good comes from having green material in the must. But I know there are those who do.

[lockwood1956]

oh sorry dude

I thought you meant to add back.......


removing the juice will concentrate the must...and will also give you juice to make a lighter rose style with (I have mnade some real nice roses this way)

regards
Bob

[Cellar_Rat]

Saignee - thats the fella...

I am planning to do a small batch of Italian Merlot (60l) to a Australian style. This will help.

I will probably over produce (to ensure top-up) - I can always add the overs or Saignee into the main batch.

[NorthernWiner]

As a side benefit, like Bob said, you can always use the saignee juice to make rosé wine. We made one a couple of years ago out of Grenache that turned out fab and won some awards.