WAH'll Fix It - Wine Challenge

[SiSandrine]

Last year I received some free local grapes (garden grown - no real viticulture applied) and a load of Bramley eating apples. Not the best wine making ingredients but I thought I would give it a go. I have 5 gallons of this stuff. I mixed in quite a bit of elderflower cordial and some violet syrup and managed to develop a lovely aroma and fermented out to dry. It wasn't much cop - try as I might to deacidify. Hard, unripe, acid and disappointing after the floral aroma - confirmed by Bob at VWC. I have used some to make some sparkling wine which has been on the lees since October but frankly a little worried about that too - we shall see.
So rather than chuck away I would like to open up to the forum the chance to make a few suggestions e.g. blending / sugar or other additions that I will then enter in the next competition to see if it makes a difference. I'll take the 3 best suggestions and make 3 gallons of those modifications to the wine and submit next time around.

Here are the VWC results for this wine.
clarity_points: 1
clarity_comments:
Colour_Points: 1
Colour_Comments:
aroma_points: 3
Aroma_Comments: pronounced. very scented nose. almost floral.
sweetness_points: 1
Sweetness_Comments: normal
acidity_points: 0.5
Acidity_Comments: slightly tart.
Bitterness_Points: 0.5
Bitterness_Comments: slightly bitter.
body_points: 0.5
body_comments: awkward. Very hard texture to the wine in the mouth and a little green-ness.
taste_points: 1
Taste_Comments: green
finish_points: 1
finish_comments: tapering
quality_points: 1
Quality_Comments: no exceptional features
Total_Points: 10.5
Award:
Comments: A mixed bag. acid a tad high, slightly low on body and hints of unripe fruit. might make a better medium wine, the extra sugar balancing the acid.

[NorthernWiner]

Simon, I'm interested in the methodology you used to create this. That in itself might provide some clue as to what could be changed. Do you have the "recipe" or any notes you could share here?

[lockwood1956]

The acidity being high.....either add some acid reducing solution (karl sells it)

or bring the sugar up to balance the acid, this may also help to mask some of the green-ness, you may also find that a tablespoon of glycerine per bottle will smooth things too (and add body).

Adding 1 tsp Sorbitol to a gallon can also smooth things out. (although I am switching from Sorbitol to Xylitol as it is a more natural sugar....both are non fermentable)

[kampervan]

funny i have exactly same prob. i have tried acid reducing solution it has taken it down a bit but not enough. so what i did is make a wine no 1 with no acid hoping to blend the 2 then sweeten slightly with elderflower cordial

[SiSandrine]

Simon, I'm interested in the methodology you used to create this. That in itself might provide some clue as to what could be changed. Do you have the "recipe" or any notes you could share here?

Hi Steve,
Here are the details (sorry it is all in SG).
Late September. Collected 23 kg of cooking apples from a friends place - processed using primitive means leaving 11.5 litres juice. SG 1.050, topped with elderflower cordial and sugar syrup to 1080. Added bentonite etc and fermented to dry (Vintners Harvest SN 9), fined using Kwik Cleer.

Early October - collected and processed Chasselas grapes from neighbours garden (all on same vine). 3 gallons of juice total, SG 1060. Sugar / elderflower syrup up to 1.080. Added bentonite etc fermented to dry (Gervin D), fined using Kwik Cleer.

Overwintered both wines, some tartaric drop out observed but not as much as hoped.

In Feb, I blended the two wines - two thirds apple, one third grape - 6 gallons total.
TA measured 6.5 (as sulphuric - sorry) - added acid reducing solution and some precipitated chalk to drive acidity down to 5.5 (as sulphuric).
For a while I would swear it was alittle smoother than it is now, but not by much.

May - racked off (crusty sediment - chalk) and filtered.

Little dubious as to whether further acid reducing solution would have an effect.
Grateful as always further guidance /advice.

[lockwood1956]

Hi Simon, you are at the upper end of Acidity for a white, and I suspect the (possibly unripe) apples have added a great deal of malic to the mix, which is why it "bites".

I would be trying to get it nearer 4.5 sulphuric, which is (7 g/l/ tartaric) or sweeten it.... sweetening will take the edge off the bite, but not completely remove it.

Or.....

you could blend it with a bland wine, to give it some bite

[lockwood1956]

Alternatively (but go very very carefully)


You could take out some of the wine, and drop most of the acidity from it, and blend it back in, till the desired effect is reached.

[Cellar_Rat]

Two thoughts spring to mind...

Have you tried cold stabilization. Chill the wine to almost freezing for 2 weeks, rack while still cold. The crystals are tartaric acid.

I prefer canderel powder to sugar. a) tastes better b) not fermentable

PS Don't feel alone with this its a 'feature' of English wine

[lockwood1956]

Have you tried cold stabilization. Chill the wine to almost freezing for 2 weeks, rack while still cold. The crystals are tartaric acid.

I'm fairly sure the offending acid is Malic, which wont drop with cold stabilisation

regards

Bob

[SiSandrine]

Agreed. I managed to drop most of the tartaric from the grape portion over winter. So far I have most hope from blending a bland WN1 with no acid additions. Slightly fearful of losing aroma though.

[David]

I grow apples and press & ferment the juice, blending (rule of thumb) 1/3 cooker juice (acidic) to 2/3 sweet eater juice (lower acidity). You have blended wine made from acidic cooking apple juice with that made from English grapes 2:1, so I'm not surprised it's too acidic.

You mention adding elderflower cordial - if it was homemade it could well contain lemon pith which will give your wine a bitter flavour. I've had a devil of a job stopping OH from shredding whole lemons into it, thus preventing me from using it for wine making.

Not a remedy, more of a post mortem.

I suspect the (possibly unripe) apples have added a great deal of malic to the mix, which is why it "bites".

I start juicing cookers in October. September does seem very early.

[fatbloke]

Well, if, as is likely, the acidic nature is down to malic acid, then is it worth considering MLF ? which, as I understand it, should soften it some or am I barking up the wrong tree ?