To Stop or not to Stop

[Cellar_Rat]

I have Apple and Elderflower wine from 2009 that is still going. It is how at 990. It tastes gorgeous. Clear as a bell.

Prime and bottle as fizzy or sulphite and sorbate and bottle as still?

Or of course see were it stops naturally (can I get the hydrometer to sink? completely)

[lockwood1956]

if you are priming for fizzy or indeed leaving it dry, there is no need for sorbate.

regards
Bob

[lockwood1956]

At 0.990 there isnt any sugar left.....having said that I have heard it reported that some people have had wines drop below that...i.e. 0.988

I am however sceptical.

Adding sorbate to an active ferment is very unlikely to stop a ferment, the live yeasties in there will keep going at any sugar left. Until all the sugar is gone, or the yeast reaches its alcohol tolerance. the idea that sorbate can stop an active ferment is actually a myth. What happens is that winemakers add the sorbate and sulphite, and this stuns the yeast, and can quite often result in a stuck ferment, which may or may not start again at any point. i.e when the sulphite in the wine becomes "bound" (inactive) and not "free" (active) at this point the ferment can restart.

IMHO

regards
Bob

regards
Bob

[Cellar_Rat]

regards
Bob

regards
Bob

Have you developed a split personality?

[lockwood1956]

Yes.....


No......


regards
Bobs

[gordonmull]

Adding sorbate to an active ferment is very unlikely to stop a ferment, the live yeasties in there will keep going at any sugar left. Until all the sugar is gone, or the yeast reaches its alcohol tolerance. the idea that sorbate can stop an active ferment is actually a myth. What happens is that winemakers add the sorbate and sulphite, and this stuns the yeast, and can quite often result in a stuck ferment, which may or may not start again at any point. i.e when the sulphite in the wine becomes "bound" (inactive) and not "free" (active) at this point the ferment can restart.

So you are saying that the sorbate, campden and backsweeten method developed in tutorial #2 isn't foolproof then? I'm a bit concerned now, as I have used this method to "stop" a few wines for backsweetening. I originally thought that, like any population, lack of reproduction would lead to the individuals dying off with no other organisms to take their place and that the sulphite would stun them long enough for a significant proportion to die off. That's how i originally thought the combination of these chemicals worked.

I'm not having a go, just confused and want to know how to backsweeten without risk of refermentation.

Out of curiosity...just how long does a yeast cell survive for anyway? (if anyone knows)

[lockwood1956]

Hi
Didn't see it as having a go at all

An active ferment is a very difficult thing to stop. Once all the sugar is eaten, the yeasties do evetually succumb, as you state. However, there is no real guarantee, that they will not fire up again. I should however, have quantified my statement....if you have fermented to dry, you can sulphite and sorbate, and then (i wait 24 hours later) sweeten, and let it sit in DJ for a time (I wait at least a week) to make sure it doesnt fire up again.

The point I am trying tp make (badly ) is that attempting to "stop" a ferment using sorbate is iffy at best. But in a wine that has finished (most of the yeast colony "spent" it will more than likely stop a restart, and in one that is nearly finished, it will weaken the colony to such an extent that it gives up the fight. I see posts here there and everywhere on T'internet, where people are claiming they have, and advising others that you can stop ferments at 1.020 etc....this way lies madness, and popped corks or worse....

I hope that makes more sense.

regards
bob

[billybuntus]

Hi
Didn't see it as having a go at all

An active ferment is a very difficult thing to stop. Once all the sugar is eaten, the yeasties do evetually succumb, as you state. However, there is no real guarantee, that they will not fire up again. I should however, have quantified my statement....if you have fermented to dry, you can sulphite and sorbate, and then (i wait 24 hours later) sweeten, and let it sit in DJ for a time (I wait at least a week) to make sure it doesnt fire up again.

The point I am trying tp make (badly ) is that attempting to "stop" a ferment using sorbate is iffy at best. But in a wine that has finished (most of the yeast colony "spent" it will more than likely stop a restart, and in one that is nearly finished, it will weaken the colony to such an extent that it gives up the fight. I see posts here there and everywhere on T'internet, where people are claiming they have, and advising others that you can stop ferments at 1.020 etc....this way lies madness, and popped corks or worse....

I hope that makes more sense.

regards
bob

Just to summarise. Stabilising with sorbate near the end of ferment (for instance if you were trying to achieve off-dry rather than dry) is the best way to try and achieve this?

[Cellar_Rat]

Allow me to open that box for you Pandora !!

[gordonmull]

Thanks Lockwood, I get it now.

[lockwood1956]

Just to summarise. Stabilising with sorbate near the end of ferment (for instance if you were trying to achieve off-dry rather than dry) is the best way to try and achieve this?

No......


Ferment to dry....stabilise...then sweeten....allow to sit a while to ensure no restart...and if all well....bottle

hope that helps
regards
Bob

[lockwood1956]

Allow me to open that box for you Pandora !!

haha

there are many different schools of thought on this subject....what i have posted is my point of view on the matter

but it is the opinion of the management (only kidding of course)



regards
bob

[billybuntus]

No......


Ferment to dry....stabilise...then sweeten....allow to sit a while to ensure no restart...and if all well....bottle

hope that helps
regards
Bob

Well why didn't you just say that in the first place?